Hot screaming death!!

[spencer]

In my humble opinion, that is how it should end for an adventurer. And, for the most part, in Sryth, that is how it happens (not necessarily referring to Ildraria, but you get the idea).

My suggestion is this:

Make dying more painful, more than a mere inconvenience. What do you lose if you die right now? Either 32 or 16 xp and anything you might have earned since you saved last. For almost all of us, dying is just an inconvenience.

I propose to make the game more challenging and players more adroit at avoiding hot screaming death.

Here are a couple of ways to do that:

1. Make the xp penalty significant...say 1024 general xp or even more to purchase a rune of life and double whatever it is for a mark of death.

2. Delay the ressurection: I am not talking about a significant amount of time, but make it say, 2 or 3 minutes, while your soul is transported back from the hereafter. Face it, most of us die during MPS battles, that would be a good deterrent to buying the farm.

3. Possibly require battle markers and/or gold in addition to xp for returning to life.

None of these changes would significantly impact the mechanics of the game (possibly number 2 would).

I am very interested in everyone's thoughts.

Oh, one other thing. Don't severely penalize new or inexperienced players. I realize that they get 20 ROL to start with. It could be increased to some degree or maybe there is some way to stagger the cost of a ROL. The stronger you get, the more xp, gold and/or BM it costs to come back.

Now, flame away!!

[Doolipalally]

Not going to flame - I'll leave that to Ildraria!

I like these suggestions. It would make MPs much more interesting if you actually had to keep an eye on what you were doing, though maybe if the penalty for dying went up the MP specials might need to be toned down just a smidgeon.

I think it would be good if the cost of a RoL went up as a character levelled up. I've seen similar mechanisms in other games. Using gold as well as xp would be good too - after all, there's not much else to do with it. Not sure about BMs. It depends on whether the GM has any use for them in mind other than for raffles.

[thingirl]

I like the idea of RoLs (MoDs double cost) costing more as you level up. Maybe start at 16 XP and 10 gold and starting at MR and/or SP 50, the cost increases by 8 XP and 25 gold every 10 points of MR and SP. (That is, at MR/SP 49 and below, the cost is 16 XP and 25 gold; at MR 50/SP 49, it's 24XP and 20 gold; at MR 50/ SP 50 it's 32 XP and 30 gold; and so on.)

[spencer]

Not going to flame - I'll leave that to Ildraria!

I like these suggestions. It would make MPs much more interesting if you actually had to keep an eye on what you were doing, though maybe if the penalty for dying went up the MP specials might need to be toned down just a smidgeon.

I think it would be good if the cost of a RoL went up as a character levelled up. I've seen similar mechanisms in other games. Using gold as well as xp would be good too - after all, there's not much else to do with it. Not sure about BMs. It depends on whether the GM has any use for them in mind other than for raffles.

I like the idea that the cost increases as you level up. I would ask that the GM put a cap on how many you can have at one time as people would just buy up a ton of them when they were lower levels.

[thingirl]

I like the idea that the cost increases as you level up. I would ask that the GM put a cap on how many you can have at one time as people would just buy up a ton of them when they were lower levels.

Like make the cap 20? So you start with the cap of RoLs.

[scout1idf]

I don't like the idea of a "penalty" for dieing.

A couple of times the MP's, Scout was taken out in the first 2 clicks of the round. He had his full SP (195-205 depending on the bonus) MR 193+ and had the proper weapon for the fight.

A bad roll of the dice caused his death, not not paying attention. So the only change I would find "fair" would be the increase in price for the RoL or to remove a MoD. (actually I've thought they were pretty cheap)


More later maybe, got to eat.....

[Draxas]

I have read all quotes and understand,
I will not refer any ideas, on what to do at this time.
I will need to think on it, I do however like the idea of consequences, makes the game more competetive.
My RoL is almost always down around 5 or below, I believe it makes me think , and pay more attention.
Of course I also have a slow laptop with an air card, get plenty of time to look at screen LOL.

[Oldschool]

Increasing the "cost" for RoLs and MoDs are a good idea.

I like idea of a wait time especially since it seems most of my deaths, and most other "farther along" characters I'm guessing, occur courtesy of the mps. Not to say it doesn't happen in single run content or solo grinds cause - but a timer delay wouldn't be as effective in those situations.

I also like the idea of a gold, BM or increased xp cost. The only thing is if it were a flat rate it could be (dis)proportionately biased against less developed characters or players with more limited playing time.

So I agree that a sliding scale would be the best. The only thing that concerns me with that is the amount of time it would take the GM to implement such a creation.

Just some thoughts.

[thingirl]

I like idea of a wait time especially since it seems most of my deaths, and most other "farther along" characters I'm guessing, occur courtesy of the mps. Not to say it doesn't happen in single run content or solo grinds cause - but a timer delay wouldn't be as effective in those situations.

I like a wait timer, but only a small one. Like 5 seconds tops.

[Doolipalally]

I don't like the idea of a "penalty" for dieing.

A couple of times the MP's, Scout was taken out in the first 2 clicks of the round. He had his full SP (195-205 depending on the bonus) MR 193+ and had the proper weapon for the fight.

A bad roll of the dice caused his death, not not paying attention. So the only change I would find "fair" would be the increase in price for the RoL or to remove a MoD. (actually I've thought they were pretty cheap)


More later maybe, got to eat.....

I do take your point about this, Scout, but look at it another way for a minute.

We can gather stats on the maximum damage each MP boss can do with one special (don't have time to look right now but I'm assume they're on the wiki). That then becomes the magic number.

So if your SP is lower than that number you know you have a risk of dying.

So at that point you have to weigh the chances and decide whether to flee or whether to risk it. So long as you watch your SP and flee when it gets near the magic number, you will never die in an MP. Well, almost never :)

In the case you mention, if you'd fled with a BoP after the first click, you'd have been fine. You decided to take the chance of there not being another big special attack, and you were unlucky.

I do think that if this idea were ever implemented (and I think Oldschool makes a good point about how much time it would take to do so) then MP specials should probably be reduced, though. It would get a bit tedious if you had to flee too often...

[Lightwielder]

I do think that if this idea were ever implemented (and I think Oldschool makes a good point about how much time it would take to do so) then MP specials should probably be reduced, though. It would get a bit tedious if you had to flee too often...

Ah, yeah. That would practically mutilate chances of becoming a Legendary Berserker. Still, the life of a Legendary Berserker is inherently dangerous to the extreme. It'd be part of the challenge.

All that aside, let's get to my real concerns...

I think it would be good if the cost of a RoL went up as a character levelled up.
I like the idea of RoLs (MoDs double cost) costing more as you level up. Maybe start at 16 XP and 10 gold and starting at MR and/or SP 50, the cost increases by 8 XP and 25 gold every 10 points of MR and SP. (That is, at MR/SP 49 and below, the cost is 16 XP and 25 gold; at MR 50/SP 49, it's 24XP and 20 gold; at MR 50/ SP 50 it's 32 XP and 30 gold; and so on.)

The only problem with measuring your stats to determine your Rune of Life cost is the fact that your stats are adjustable. If you take off your weapons and armor, your stats decrease and so does the cost. It would take quite some time for the Gamemaster to counterbalance this feature, and that would pile upon the updates that everyone is ALREADY complaining about.

I like a wait timer, but only a small one. Like 5 seconds tops.

Remember that the Multiplayer Scenarios already require you to wait before rejoining a fight after dying.

Here's one idea. Like in Everquest II where, when you die, you get a "revive sickness" that reduces your stats to 10% of their original values for several minutes. What if we tried something like that. When you die, your Melee Rating is cut in half, cut to one-fourth, or some other specified fraction.

I don't like the idea of a "penalty" for dieing.
Sorry, scout, but the spelling perfectionist in me is "dying" to point out your typo. I'll attribute that to that fact that you were hungry. :) That must be it.

[shadowblack]

Last time I checked you had to wait 4 (FOUR) rounds before you could flee from Ildraria. And opponents can hit you with a special (and kill you) even when you're fleeing. That means Ildraria has 5 chances to hit you with one of her 100+ specials. NO ONE can survive 3 such specials. To make matters worse she can stun you, keeping you from acting. So you start with max Stamina and on round 1 you get hit for 100+ damage AND get stunned. So next round you can only hope to not get hit and stunned again...

There's also the fact that your engagement with Ildraria could last for as long as 37 rounds - that's a lot of time. We can have at most 3 Blessings. The result will probably be people constantly fleeing and running to Talinus to restock on blessings. The end result will be one of the following:
a) people will get tired of constantly having to flee and restock on blessings, and will just give on (some) MPs
b) people will decide the cost for dying is not that high and will not bother fleeing, relying on luck to not get killed by specials

[Doolipalally]

I didn't realise it took that long before you could flee - thanks for straightening me out on that one.

[spencer]

Last time I checked you had to wait 4 (FOUR) rounds before you could flee from Ildraria. And opponents can hit you with a special (and kill you) even when you're fleeing. That means Ildraria has 5 chances to hit you with one of her 100+ specials. NO ONE can survive 3 such specials. To make matters worse she can stun you, keeping you from acting. So you start with max Stamina and on round 1 you get hit for 100+ damage AND get stunned. So next round you can only hope to not get hit and stunned again...

There's also the fact that your engagement with Ildraria could last for as long as 37 rounds - that's a lot of time. We can have at most 3 Blessings. The result will probably be people constantly fleeing and running to Talinus to restock on blessings. The end result will be one of the following:
a) people will get tired of constantly having to flee and restock on blessings, and will just give on (some) MPs
b) people will decide the cost for dying is not that high and will not bother fleeing, relying on luck to not get killed by specials

I am all for adjusting the specials to some degree, but the one thing that gets lost is that these bad mamma jammas are just that: they are BAD NEWS. They are DANGEROUS. They are epic villains. It should be tough to beat them. The way the game mechanics works now makes it basically have almost no consequence for dying. To me, that takes away from the challenge of the game. Make it a little tougher, make it a lot tougher. There are steps that you can take to help yourself.

[Oldschool]

Ditto to what Spencer said. Even more so since we now have the BOG available to hit them with.

[shadowblack]

Don't forget that a lot of new players don't have the BOG. Obtaining it has several requirements:
- Complete the Aldvarian Amulet quest - triggered at random AND it requires an Aldvarian Artifact to trigger
- buy the ring of Motley Wonder
- get and deposit the required number of Quivering tar blobs (which requires participating in one of the MPs)
- Be there when the portal opens
- kill ALL Massive Tar Blobs - the strognest one has MR over 170 - higher than some of the MP bosses

And even if you have the BOG, it can used only once every how many hours?

With the exception of Ulgror the MPs are not exactly popular (except when there's something like "double Battle Maarkers rewards"). No need to make them even less popular.

The way the game is now increasing the cost of dying could have negative effects on other parts of the game, unless it is just a minor change (such as a RoL cost of 32 and a MoD cost of 64 or 128).

[spencer]

Don't forget that a lot of new players don't have the BOG. Obtaining it has several requirements:
- Complete the Aldvarian Amulet quest - triggered at random AND it requires an Aldvarian Artifact to trigger
- buy the ring of Motley Wonder
- get and deposit the required number of Quivering tar blobs (which requires participating in one of the MPs)
- Be there when the portal opens
- kill ALL Massive Tar Blobs - the strognest one has MR over 170 - higher than some of the MP bosses

And even if you have the BOG, it can used only once every how many hours?

With the exception of Ulgror the MPs are not exactly popular (except when there's something like "double Battle Maarkers rewards"). No need to make them even less popular.

The way the game is now increasing the cost of dying could have negative effects on other parts of the game, unless it is just a minor change (such as a RoL cost of 32 and a MoD cost of 64 or 128).


First, MP scenarios are not really designed for newer players. If they can acquire the BOG, it would be a way for them to get MPS xp that they cannot get now.

Please clarify what you mean by the statement in bold. What negative effects are you referring to? I think it would improve the quality of gameplay because people will pay more attention to what is going on and avoiding death is definitely better than not avoiding it, in my opinion.

[thingirl]

The only problem with measuring your stats to determine your Rune of Life cost is the fact that your stats are adjustable. If you take off your weapons and armor, your stats decrease and so does the cost. It would take quite some time for the Gamemaster to counterbalance this feature, and that would pile upon the updates that everyone is ALREADY complaining about.

Hmm, I didn't think about that.

Maybe if it corresponds to your highest recorded values? True, you have the Fogbough bonuses to deal with, but that is very small.

[racey]

I like the idea of RoLs (MoDs double cost) costing more as you level up. Maybe start at 16 XP and 10 gold and starting at MR and/or SP 50, the cost increases by 8 XP and 25 gold every 10 points of MR and SP. (That is, at MR/SP 49 and below, the cost is 16 XP and 25 gold; at MR 50/SP 49, it's 24XP and 20 gold; at MR 50/ SP 50 it's 32 XP and 30 gold; and so on.)

The below part of Lightwielders quote addresses the fundamental flaw with this idea...

The only problem with measuring your stats to determine your Rune of Life cost is the fact that your stats are adjustable. If you take off your weapons and armor, your stats decrease and so does the cost. It would take quite some time for the Gamemaster to counterbalance this feature, and that would pile upon the updates that everyone is ALREADY complaining about.

Now it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other as I always try to avoid getting any of my characters killed but since it was brought up wouldn't a more fair way to base a sliding scale off of would be to base it off of a characters average skills and powers- 4(RoL)/8(MoD) xp for average skill/power level of 10, 8/16 skill/power level of 20, 16/32 at level 30 up to 72/144 (these are quick numbers and would probably need tweaked/adjusted) at level 100. Just a thought.

[shadowblack]

I don't know about the current situation, but in the past some of the MP bosses (such as the pumpkin and the Wolf) had MR below 150, meaning that they would be 3+ for characters with around 160 MR while at the same time at least one of the Massive Tar Blobs will be 18+ for them.

About the bolded part (let’s see if I can explain it well enough):
Currently the cost of dying is low so dying is not a big deal and thus people can afford to freely explore and experiment without worry. If the experience cost gets significantly increased, the consequences could be:
- slower advancement of characters – more experience lost when dying means less experience for skill and power developement. Particularly problematic for new players who are still learning how things work and thus make many mistakes and die a lot (ESPECIALLY since there’s no indication how hard an adventure is until they try it). Add to that the fact that the general experience rewards for some adventures are pretty low. For example, Merchant of Bones gives 128 general and 32 to all exp for completion, so if a single RoL costs 128…
- fewer people fighting in the MP battles – the max exp we can get from an MP battle is pretty low as it is. Having to constantly flee from MP bosses to avoid death can get boring really fast, and not fleeing could result in losing more experience than you get for participating, which is hardly the way to encourage MP participation…
If there’s a gold cost for dying: Gold is needed only at the early stages (after that we have plenty of gold), which is also the time a lot of people die. This could make it pretty hard to get the needed gold at first, slowing down character advancement.

Also, any increase in the price of death automatically makes healing A LOT more valuable. That means that Restoration becomes a lot more important, and healing items (especially the Quickstone) are a lot more valuable. The value of MR compared to Stamina Points and Nevernal Reserve will also change. The usefulness of each and every piece of equipment will change as well (especially Tallys items). Some character builds will become less effective than they were while others will become more effective, which means change in strategy for the players…

In short, a significant change in the cost of dying could affect the balance of the entire game.

[spencer]

I don't know about the current situation, but in the past some of the MP bosses (such as the pumpkin and the Wolf) had MR below 150, meaning that they would be 3+ for characters with around 160 MR while at the same time at least one of the Massive Tar Blobs will be 18+ for them.

About the bolded part (let’s see if I can explain it well enough):
Currently the cost of dying is low so dying is not a big deal and thus people can afford to freely explore and experiment without worry. If the experience cost gets significantly increased, the consequences could be:
- slower advancement of characters – more experience lost when dying means less experience for skill and power developement. Particularly problematic for new players who are still learning how things work and thus make many mistakes and die a lot (ESPECIALLY since there’s no indication how hard an adventure is until they try it). Add to that the fact that the general experience rewards for some adventures are pretty low. For example, Merchant of Bones gives 128 general and 32 to all exp for completion, so if a single RoL costs 128…
- fewer people fighting in the MP battles – the max exp we can get from an MP battle is pretty low as it is. Having to constantly flee from MP bosses to avoid death can get boring really fast, and not fleeing could result in losing more experience than you get for participating, which is hardly the way to encourage MP participation…
If there’s a gold cost for dying: Gold is needed only at the early stages (after that we have plenty of gold), which is also the time a lot of people die. This could make it pretty hard to get the needed gold at first, slowing down character advancement.

Also, any increase in the price of death automatically makes healing A LOT more valuable. That means that Restoration becomes a lot more important, and healing items (especially the Quickstone) are a lot more valuable. The value of MR compared to Stamina Points and Nevernal Reserve will also change. The usefulness of each and every piece of equipment will change as well (especially Tallys items). Some character builds will become less effective than they were while others will become more effective, which means change in strategy for the players…

In short, a significant change in the cost of dying could affect the balance of the entire game.


First off, let me say that I am enjoying the healthy debate and am not taking anything personally. I hope that everyone feels likewise.

I will try to address these points one by one.

Slower advancement of characters: I think we have already mentioned that you can give newer players a set number of ROL to begin...the current number is 20, I think for that very reason, because newer people tend to die more as they are learning the game. That number could be raised and the new ROL could be purchased based upon levels as racey, TG, and others have suggested.

Gold cost: Well the paragraph above seems to take care of that, again, get a lot of ROL at the beginning. Again, the cost could increase based upon skills, total xp gained, etc...there are plenty of mechanisms to stagger the cost.

Healing: Restoration is already a very useful power. I use it more than any other. Character builds are an important part of the game, but how many of us limited ourselves early on because we did not know that you could get all or most stats near 20 relatively easily. I was one and I know that many great players like Shadowblack, smv, Havoc and others have less than optimum stats. You all have flourished in the game even though it is "easier" for others. The game evolves. Someday, a new change may make restoration less relevant. Necro was not as popular until the GM changed it to not allow it to be resisted. Destruction is not nearly as popular as it once was because people want to get Necro, Gating or Elementalism higher because the bad guys cannot resist it (those pesky anti-magic shells are something else entirely). My point is, that while information on the wiki is extremely valuable, it is meant to guide characters and not to tell them every step that they need to take. The game will continue to evolve. It was fantastic when I started 2.5 years ago and it is even better now.

One final point: how careful are all of us in the PG adventures? I have not died in a PG adventure since PG II. Sometimes we get unlucky and it matters not how careful we are. The point is that dying during a PG has a significant consequence. Your AT (far and away the most valuable currency in the game) reward suffers if you die. I am not saying that the consequence should be as dramatic outside of a PG, but it should be more than just an inconvenience.

[Arik]

I think that Marks of Death should cost more to remove, and should have more severe consequences. 512 XP to remove, and -2 to MR and NvR as well as -4 to SP per Mark until removed? (As other people have mentioned, maybe the cost of RoLs/MoDs should increase with power gained?)

Possibly an "afterlife" scenario to return to life? Srythak Himself judges you? That should make some adventurers watch their SP a little more carefully! ;)

Edit: I think that as long as you have RoLs, the cost of death should be fairly low. When you run out of RoLs, I think the cost of death should be far higher. Also, I think that RoLs should be much more expensive than they are now, and you can buy them from people (or you can get RoLs in a quest? Tallys says to you, "That Sword of Merzekk looks valuable. I think I'll buy it for 1024 ATs, 10,000 gold pieces, and 15 Runes of Life"?)

[Oldschool]

Well adjusting "costs" based on stats isn't doable in my opinion but I like Racey's idea of how to base it.

But Shadowblack makes a good point about early adventuer rewards vs. costs. RoL/MoD costs could be keyed wholly or in conjuction with Racey's idea.

But to be truthful any sliding scale would have it's pros and cons. And more to the I think it would take significant time to implement a sliding scale.

I say jack up the initial RoL's significantly - say 100 minimum. And give current players an option to purchase under the current prices the same max amount for new characters.

Then if a small across the board gold fee or small xp increase were implemented it wouldn't affect "early" characters too disproportionately.

I still like the idea of a wait time which should be fairly easy to implement. Or there could be other adjustments like Lightwielder mentions or others.

[Lightwielder]

I think that Marks of Death should cost more to remove, and should have more severe consequences. 512 XP to remove, and -2 to MR and NvR as well as -4 to SP per Mark until removed? (As other people have mentioned, maybe the cost of RoLs/MoDs should increase with power gained?)

I do agree with the idea that Marks of Death could easily be more expensive without screwing over the game. After carelessness causes you to get a Mark of Death once or twice, you'll learn to be a lot more careful, and appreciate the value of Runes of Life.

[scout1idf]

Rather than seeing the cost of death increase, I would much rather see a few dozen loose ends tied up along with more content added to the story......

Just my opinion.....




Scout

[spencer]

Rather than seeing the cost of death increase, I would much rather see a few dozen loose ends tied up along with more content added to the story......

Just my opinion.....




Scout


I really don't think that it would take much time to add a post-death timer or to increase the costs of ROL and MOD. However, like you, I am all for tying up any loose ends before implementing any other new major changes.

[Arik]

I wish that there were some way to implement a death/resurrection system like that of D&D after you run out of RoLs. But Sryth is a single-player game...no parties of adventurers...so there isn't. Oh, well.

[texlaw1992]

Interesting point. If I remember correctly, 1st edition D&D provided that you permanently lost a point of constitution with each resurrection, but gained a 1000 xp bonus. A loss of a permanent stat point in say, body might act as a real disincentive to death.

Actually, current 3.5 edition D&D (based on D&D online) has eliminated all penalties for death and resurrection.

[racey]

Interesting point. If I remember correctly, 1st edition D&D provided that you permanently lost a point of constitution with each resurrection, but gained a 1000 PX bonus. A loss of a permanent stat point in say, body might act as a real disincentive to death.

Actually, current 3.5 edition D&D (based on D&D on line) has eliminated all penalties for death and resurrection.

D&D v3.5 is not actually the current version. v4.0 is the current version and I am not sure what ,if any, penalties there are for death and a subsequent resurrection.

[scout1idf]

D&D v3.5 is not actually the current version. v4.0 is the current version and I am not sure what ,if any, penalties there are for death and a subsequent resurrection.

D&D v4.0 doesn't count!!!

From the posts I read on the Wizards of the Coast forum, before I quit going there, most current players didn't like it.

There were to many changes made.

D&D v4.0 for the Forgotten Realms destroyed the Realms. That made me hate it without even playing.

[Arik]

D&D v3.5 is not actually the current version. v4.0 is the current version and I am not sure what ,if any, penalties there are for death and a subsequent resurrection.

I think 4.0 eliminates even the loss of a level after death.

[spencer]

Getting back to the subject here, ahem. I think that a permanent loss of a stat point is much too severe. Temporary losses, however, would be appropriate.

[Arik]

Getting back to the subject here, ahem. I think that a permanent loss of a stat point is much too severe. Temporary losses, however, would be appropriate.

I agree with spencer that a loss of a stat point is too severe. I was referring to resurrection after RoLs run out requiring someone to cast a difficult spell (maybe when a player dies in a certain location, other adventurers can see where he/she died with a feature like the "other adventurers in this location", and if they have Restro 100, can resurrect him/her?) However, this would obviously be difficult to implement, besides irritating (to say the least) for the dead players, since they might have to wait days (or more) to be resurrected.

Or possibly the Quickstone could have a certain number of resurrections after your RoLs run out?

However, even if the price of RoLs goes up to something like 128 XP for mid-level players, it's still not that much (especially if you could buy them from NPCs for 100 gold or so). I think that RoLs should be somewhat more expensive, but after they run out...

[Lyrehc]

Getting back to the subject here, ahem. I think that a permanent loss of a stat point is much too severe. Temporary losses, however, would be appropriate.

I agree.

Fairly early on as a player I was exploring Trithik and ended up in prison - and I permanently lost 1 point of Spirit. As a new player that was hugely frustrating and almost caused me to decide it wasn't worth bothering with the game - I think that for new players if you have other ways they can lose a stat point it's going to negatively affect how many people play.

[racey]

I also believe a permanent loss of a stat point is way too severe.

OFF TOPIC-
I never played above v3.5 myself. I did read some of the v4.0 Players Handbook and the one thing I did notice that I liked was that Wizards had spell selections that eventually became inherent which I though should have been the case all along. I really didn't read much more as I was in a book store.

[Scarbrow]

A healthy and lively debate indeed

I like several of the points being discussed, but I must confess I wouldn't support adding more penalties to death. I'll explain:

When do you die? Most times is during a combat, a few times is owing to a check. A huge number of deaths happen on the beginning of the game, while you're still weak (low on SP and resources). Another good chunk of deaths happen on the multiplayers, where you find exceptionally tough enemies. And the third and most irksome category - dying while on a quest. I've only read it mentioned referring to the Proving Grounds - where you should be extra cautious because of the AT element involved - but there are other considerations, upon which I'll center.

What is the cost of death? You've talked about XP and gold, but have almost waved away with a gesture the cost of time and interest. Maybe that is because you were thinking about replayables and multiplayers, which are arguably the main part of the time you spend playing the game (at least, if you want to have a strong character). But when you're nervously exploring a new location, trembling in anticipation due to not knowing what to expect, when in short you're in an adventure, dying IS penalty enough. I don't care how much is going to cost me to resurrect. I don't care what went wrong, what was the problem. It was me being too bold, or too weak? It was a wrong decision or turn of events? The truth is I don't really care. Not at the moment, because, you know, I was in the middle of an adventure and I DIED!!. The fact that is quite painless to resurrect and try again eases a little bit of the hard feeling you get when bad things happen to you. I certainly wouldn't like it to be worse. However, I wouldn't mind a replayable resurrecting scenario (which would mean both a delay in coming back to your body and a certain reward to sweeten your loss of time spent on the botched quest).

You'll say: "But how about multiplayers, where you can die a dozen deaths for good measure during a single hour of play?" And I'll answer: they're different from quest, aren't they? Then let's manage death differently there. Simply put, if you're going to modify how death happens, separate the sources of adventurers' deaths, and act differently on every one. That way, new players (who shouldn't be doing multiplayers, for a start) won't be penalized, veteran and berserkers will have their little extra "spice" to death so they can't just spam away to a dragon (or a huge demon, tar beast, etc), and adventure followers won't find extra penalties after failing and having to start again from the beginning of the quest (something irksome enough on itself, I assure you).

My two cents

[Oldschool]

Good point Scarbrow about having separate mechanics. Actually the PGs more or less have their own in that defeats do penalize you. So it's not much of a stretch to have separate systems for the other different types of content.

[Badstench]

Where was I when this thread was alive and I was looking for quotable quotes?

This from Oldschool had me choke...

My suggestion is this: Make dying more painful

That's a gem!

[spencer]

Thanks for reviving the thread, Badstench. I will forward the suggestions to the GM at some point (if I am allowed to do so, not sure about moderator rules and what not), but I will delay a bit in hopes that the ever mysterious TOA will be here soon.

[Scarbrow]

I will forward the suggestions to the GM at some point (if I am allowed to do so, not sure about moderator rules and what not)

Moderator rules? :confused: On Sryth? To contact the GM? Oh, please! :p

Pray send to the GM your suggestions and as much of the rest of the comments as possible, spencer, and thanks for doing it.

[Lightwielder]

Thanks for reviving the thread, Badstench. I will forward the suggestions to the GM at some point (if I am allowed to do so, not sure about moderator rules and what not), but I will delay a bit in hopes that the ever mysterious TOA will be here soon.

If there were rules to contacting him, I'm certain that the Forum Moderators would be the one with the say-so.

[spencer]

I just thought that I might revive this thread since even the very small penalties that we had before are now gone. However, I am sure that more changes are forthcoming. I guess you could say that there is a penalty in that if you forget to save, you do lose any xp you had gained since the previous save.

[Tetracapillactomist]

Precisely. Not only that, but often valuable items too, don't forget!

Quivering blobs of tar, onyx bands, wood and iron (yes, they're not a hoax, folks, I found one! After nearly one year of playing!!! :D Hm... 'Milestones' item, that one... I mean the Iron Icon), common to mythical Aldvarian Artefacts, unmatched-grade items - you name it!

You bite the dust - you swallow the bitter pill of loss, because the chances of finding those items again right after the 'death' event range from 'uncertain' to 'Ha! Fat chance!' ;)