Combat system - refinement

[Corgrim]

Some suggestions for refinement of combat:

I know some of this has been covered elsewhere, but since this is a new forum...1. Simplify attacks
I'm not sure that the current Normal/Aggressive/Defensive distinction is the most valuable. I'd rather see (as some have suggested) a few definable buttons. For example, I generally do only four things in combat:


Attack with my weapon Aggressively
Attack with my weapon and Shadow magic Aggressively
Attack with Gating Defensively (I have no idea if this makes a difference when using Gating, but better safe than sorry)
Restoration (Defensive - same comment as for gating)
[Fortification - I used to use this, but it's generally not worth the effort. see below]

The Use items box could stay, of course, though I mostly only use the Quickstone.
3-4 definable buttons would be best, but I'd be satisfied with a Weapon attack button and a Preferred magic attack button.
Problems:


obviously, there may be people who fight in a much different way, and use all sorts of attacks. (I'd be interested to hear why)



You'd still want to allow access to other magic. So there'd have to be a listbox or buttons definable on the fly.

2. MR range
I find that the MR range for foes is either quite narrow, or quite sensitive. That is, foes pass fairly quickly from the 18+ range to the 3+ range. Except for scalable scenarios, there's a fairly limited time (in terms of my own MR) when foes are at a par with me.

I wonder whether it's possible to broaden the MR range for foes - so that more will be in the 5-15+ band for a longer time.

3. Retune some powers
While I'm at it, I thought I'd comment on the 'tuning' of three specific powers.


Gating - I'm a big fan of gating. I make that my primary magic attack. At 72, it's a point or two ahead of Shadow magic. But frankly, there are relatively few times when Gating is both preferable to Shadow magic and better than just an all out attack. In my experience, only when I both outrank my opponent and he won't harm me much - e.g., the Pumpkin monster. I'd like to use Gating more, but I also want to survive the fight. I do more damage with Gating, but take way too much damage. I noticed recently that some of the summoned demons distract enemies so that they don't attack me. I think that's the right direction (but more of it). Have others found any powers to work as well as equivalent level Shadow magic?
Restoration - the other of my 'big' powers. Unfortunately, it's mostly useless in combat because I take more damage than it repairs. Maybe it could heal at non-combat levels, but only once per five rounds?
Fortification - I tried for a long time to use this power. But in the end, I've pretty much given it up - on average, I take as much damage in the round I apply it as it protects me from. I'm not sure how to address that simply. Raising the protection levels might make it too powerful. Maybe extending the average duration, and raising the minimum points of protection?

[shadowblack]

1) When using Powers you use a Normal attack. This is true for ALL Powers, including Shadow Magic (last time I checked, anyway)
2) Gating DOES NOT distract enemies. That is something that happens ONLY during battles with the Multiplayer bosses (just like the Devastating attacks) and is completely random (unlike Devastating attacks). Using powers has nothing to do with it
3) Powers are useful against strang enemies (15+ or higher) because you do damage even if you roll 1
4) Gating 80+ does 28-62 damage
5) Restoration is fine the way it is. You just need to time its use right (or better yet, use it only outside combat)

[scout1idf]

For the most part, Scout uses Quick Combat 95% of the time, even bosses. When he gets into trouble, that's when he resorts to magic.

When he attacks with Gating or any magic defensively, it seems that the damage he takes is a lot lower than when he uses either of the other methods.

It might just be a matter of timing and nothing else, I don't know. But he will continue to use all of his magic in defense mode, just in case.

[thingirl]

Same here. And, oddly enough, Alanne uses agressive mode when quick combat cuts out. When the enemy is 14+ or higher, I don't use QC, I use Elementalism and sometimes SM.

[Badstench]

You've put a lot of thought into this, Corgrim. Well done on presenting the idea. I've repped ya!

You started part of the post with the heading, "Simplify attacks". I see no reason to change the current system in the battle screen, except to agree on the desirability of a magic-use category in addition to the 'normal', 'aggressive' and 'defensive' choices.

Damage caused by the use of magic doesn't seem to be influenced by styles of attack, so adding a hotkey for magic wouldn't adversely effect the average sword-wielder.

The magic attack style would include a 'pull down' function listing all the available powers, one of which could be selected as the default. This would allow a one-click attack with magic, the same as offered by weapon attacks.

This has been talked about before, but is worth adding onto your thread.

************************************************** ******

As for preferred magic attacks, it's no secret that Judge Fury is a legendary necromancer. He also owns a Fizzlebang Ring of Necromancy which affords him a 0% chance of spell failure. Needless to say, his most often used offensive spell is necromancy... it's got him out of more scrapes than you can shake a stick at.

Oddly enough, his second most often used power is restoration, the polar opposite to necromancy.

[Hastifer]

I use Aggressive against foes that have a To Hit of 8 or below, especially if they have a Special, to reduce the number of rounds in which they have a chance of damaging me.

I use Quick Combat (or Normal) vs 9-12

I use Defensive vs 13-18, until their health is 30% better than mine, or mine drops to 50%. At which point I'll resort to either an Item or Powers.

Once I decide to use a Power, I usually choose Gating or Shadow Magic: If I want a chance to get healed, and their specials aren't too bad, I'll use Shadow, but if I think that I can (or must) drop them quickly, I'll use Gating instead.

I only use Divination if I need to stretch my NvR, and only then if their to hit is low enough to make a difference.

Edit: Oh and when I use a BoP, I always attack Aggressively in conjunction with the Use of it. Then I look at how many rounds it gives me, the situation (their/my SP, their To Hit), and decide what to do from there (another aggressive attack, power/item, or flee).

[thingirl]

Maby the GM could add links to use BoPs and QS heals. They have to be the most widely used items.

[Hastifer]

Quick Combat
I'd like to have Quick Combat change from a straight link to being an "item" in the list (so the Quickstone could be listed twice: "Quickstone - heal", and "Quickstone - Quick Combat"). That way I could choose in which mode the attacks would come during my Quick Combat (after choosing the "Item", then clicking the desired attack mode button).

OR, add new links for "Quick Combat - Aggressive" and "Quick Combat - Defensive".


Powers Drop-down
I also would like the Powers list to behave like the Items list -- able to choose an attack mode, especially with regards to Shadow Magic -- the other Powers could/should be set to cast Defensive (to prevent players from casting Restoration in an Aggressive manner... oh boy).

Item Drop-down
I like the Item interface just the way it is (able to use the item and still decide which attack mode to use), I'm fine with adding a link -- just don't take away my drop-down box.... :)

[Corgrim]

Thanks to all for the input. It seems that most people do enjoy the different attack modes, which is interesting, and I therefore withdraw the suggestion.

I'd still like:

Rebalancing of shadow magic (too powerful)
Modified restoration during combat (more powerful, but use less often)


A couple of other things that I think might be useful:


Do away with the "your magic failed, you can't act for 1 turn". While the role-playing logic is good, in practice it disrupts game play - it's frustrating, because so far as I know, there's nothing you can do (except maybe use a stored 20).
Convert the Stored 20s text and the Quickstone heals to simple graphics: e.g. a mini-icon for each available 20 and each available heal. Instant recognition of what's available, in less space. And (for me) a reminder of whether I've used all the available heals that day. Could be another icon for blessings of protection, though I admit I never use those. Three types of icons would be the limit for easy comprehension though, I think.

[psychoadept]

I really like the idea for icons or links to keep track of your QS heals, BOPs, etc.

If powers need balancing, I think it would be upwards, not down. Shadow Magic doesn't have any particular advantage over Gating or Necromancy because you have to use it many more times. More NV cost and higher chance of botching. I'd rather see things like restoration, fortification, telekinesis, etc be brought up to a similar level.

[Charley]

I used to use attack styles with powers just in case, but now as I know they don't actually have an effect I generally don't bother. It makes sense for attack styles not to have an effect on magic as you can't really cast a spell agressively or defensively.

I generally use QC for enemies 5+ and below for convenience, but if QC isn't available I will use all agressive attacks to reduce the number of rounds the enemy has a chance of injuring me.

For enemies 11+ and above I use a combination of attacks depending on the circumstances. I will generally use destruction as it does the most damage, but it can be blocked, so if the enemy has high magic resistance I will use elementalism which does a reasonable amount of damage and cannot be blocked. If my SP is low but my NV is high, I will use shadow magic because, as well as decreasing the likelihood and magnitude of me taking damage (because my enemies MR is lower), it also has the chance of restoring health. However, the damage I can inflict on my enemy is lower so it uses up NV. Shadow magic is also great if you are merely trying to subdue your enemy. If my NV is running low I will use magic intermitadly with sword attacks. If I have rolled several low numbers in a row I will try an agressive attack. This of caurse is a pure gamble but it's exciting nonetheless. If my enemy is close to death I will use deffensive attacks as even a defensive attack may kill my enemy which would be the same result as a normal attack (unless of caurse the enemy has like 400 SP in which case defensive attacks will have too little effect on them).

I never use fortification or divination in combat, and restoration only rarely. I think something should be done to increase the usefulness of these powers in combat. I have several suggestions for solutions.

One would be to allow non aggressive powers (ie restoration, fortification, divination, shadow magic) to be cast between combat rounds. This would have the added bonus that it would allow you to cast shadow magic, increasing your MR, and then you could choose an attack style (ie agressive) to use while you have your MR boost. You could also limit the use of non-agressive powers to a total of one per round.

If this makes them too powerful, there are other solutions.

One would be to allow you to attack with your weapon at the same time as using the magic, so you could slash out with your sword at the same time your mind was focussed on fortifying yourself or divining your enemies next move.

For restoration, I think in-combat use should be as effective as out of combat use. There is no roleplay reason for why they should be different. One contravertial suggestion, which would balance out the new improved restoration power, would be to abolish the SP gains following combat. It doesn't make sense why you can gain SP following combat, presumably because you take some time to rest, but you can't rest on your own accord as it's not a "safe" location. This could make things very interesting. It would certainly make restoration a much more desirable power. For those without the power, kepbekk elixirs could be made more readily available from shops.

I also like the suggestion made above that you can switch to QC during the combat. Mainly because sometimes I've accidently and automatically clicked normal attack and then been stuck in some long boring combat round when QC would have been fine. Introducing QC for non-lethal combat would be good as well.

As for the layout of the combat screen itself, I'm pretty happy. It would be good to show the enemies SP as well as the percentage remaining though.

[thingirl]

This would have the added bonus that it would allow you to cast shadow magic, increasing your MR, and then you could choose an attack style (ie agressive) to use while you have your MR boost.

If I'm observing correctly, that already happens with SM.

[Hastifer]

If I'm observing correctly, that already happens with SM.

No unfortunately, SM only uses "Normal" attacks. I used to think it allowed Aggressive, but it doesn't. You can verify this by reading the regular damage for a round (not a weapon's special, mind). Then go to the combat page on the wiki and reference the damage tables.

But I'll save you a step -- top damage I've ever seen from SM is 31. If it allowed aggressive attacks, the top would be 39.

On this note, BE CAREFUL! If your SM fizzles, while you're trying to attack Aggressively, you still attack in the Aggressive mode (without the desired MR boost). Arken has perished once this way.

(On the other hand if you use Defensive, then you've got kind of a safety net if it fizzles).

[thingirl]

OK, so I'm an idiot. Thanks.

[Hastifer]

an idiot you aren't -- unless I was an idiot for 6 months...

... wait a minute... um...

[Dinkem]

The normal option in combat confuses me a little.

I usually only use aggressive, and switch it up with defensive halfway through the battle. Unless it's a +11, +12, etc opponent, then I start off with defensive.

I've also found myself only using Fortification during scenarios, rarely in battle. Though, the amount of turns in battle it remains effective seems way random. But it still does well going into battle to have, in my opinion. Same with Restoration, sometimes when I'm just a smidge below my opponent, it's good to know I can get a little ahead of their SP remaining, or soften the blow of one of their attacks. In a way, against harder monsters, Restoration could be used as a shield too. But that's just me, I'm on Mountain Dew Livewire and a few slices of supreme pizza.

[thingirl]

OK, I'll try to explain. Please correct my if I'm wrong.
Aggressive: If you roll above your to hit, you give a lot of damage. If you roll under, you take a lot.
Defensive: The opposite of aggressive. Roll above and you don't give that much damage. But if you roll under you take much less.
Normal: A balance of the other two. Above you give moderate damage and below you take moderate damage.