Less randomness! [Archive]

psychoadept

07-20-2009, 12:32 AM

Personally, I would really, REALLY like to see less randomness in the game, especially with regard to Zumryn's Challenges.

With the long wait even if you quit/die, I feel like the more randomness there is the more it favors those players who have the opportunity to run the challenges multiple times a day, as opposed to players like me who MIGHT get in one run a day, two if they're lucky.

But I thought I'd run it by you guys for opinions before taking it to the GM.

Joddelle

07-20-2009, 12:34 AM

Oh hell yes!
Repped!

thingirl

07-20-2009, 12:42 AM

Oh my, yes. Alanne's luck score is 19 (base) raised to 20 through magic items. My luck on the other hand, is more like 8. I literally CANNOT get the Temple to appear.

zmflavius

07-20-2009, 12:46 AM

Agreed.

Oldschool

07-20-2009, 12:48 AM

What Joddelle said. :D

Mattman20

07-20-2009, 12:59 AM

To paraphrase

It seems to be a forum quorum

EDIT: Oh yeah..I agree as well :p

psychoadept

07-20-2009, 03:01 AM

Well, that was an overwhelming response. :)

Lightwielder

07-20-2009, 03:29 AM

What do you mean by "less randomness"? If you quit/die, it's a lockout timer, just like the replayable scenarios. What's the problem?

Oldschool

07-20-2009, 04:53 AM

Take no offense to this mini-rant and excess drama Lightwielder as I'm still smarting from a Ogredom spanking with no temple sighting. Kinda like getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar before you get the cookie. ;)

I think he's referring to special encounters in general. Like the orbs, portals and ghostly xp benefactor and more specifically that dang temple. Although I may be mistaken as to what psychoadept means I'm frustratingly certain that's what I mean.

All this "temple torment" will make the end result, whatever it is, all the sweeter I'm sure.

scout1idf

07-20-2009, 07:03 AM

Doolipalally

07-20-2009, 07:49 AM

Randomness as a concept is fine with me (in fact it's one of the reasons I like this game), it's just a question of how high the GM sets the probability of each random encounter. With this level of frustration apparent from a large number of players, it seems clear that they're all just that bit too hard to find. If he kept the encounters as random but made it so you were, say, 75% likely to find them instead of 50% (I'm picking two numbers at random here just to illustrate the point), then I'd be happy.

shadowblack

07-20-2009, 11:46 AM

This page (http://www.srythforum.com/showthread.php?t=82&page=6), posts 226 to 229 say everything, so I won't repeat myself.

Doolipalally

07-20-2009, 12:02 PM

This page (http://www.srythforum.com/showthread.php?t=82&page=6), posts 226 to 229 say everything, so I won't repeat myself.

Linking to a page doesn't necessarily link to the posts you want, as forum users can choose how many posts they want to be displayed on each page. For me, the page you linked to displays posts 51 to 60 (although having thought about it I'm now going to go and change my display settings!).

shadowblack

07-20-2009, 01:13 PM

Crap! I forgot about that! However on forum (as is tipical for any vBulletin forum) linking to a post will show ONLY that post and not the rest of the page. Oh, well, here are the four posts in order:
226 (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=1444&postcount=226)
227 (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=1448&postcount=227)
228 (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=1452&postcount=228)
229 (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=1454&postcount=229)

In light of my most recent death in the temple I'll just add that failing a check when you need 27+ to pass is really annoying. So is failing the same type of check twice in a row (35+ to pass).

Joddelle

07-20-2009, 02:01 PM

Crap! I forgot about that! However on forum (as is tipical for any vBulletin forum) linking to a post will show ONLY that post and not the rest of the page.
You could have done something like...
http://www.srythforum.com/showthread.php?p=1444#post1444

shadowblack

07-20-2009, 02:03 PM

I wish I had known that sooner. Thanks!

Joddelle

07-20-2009, 02:05 PM

Sorry - repeat post, but it's on topic and has nothing to do with the prior post.

What I hate is how often I roll 1 through 10 on those d100 checks. It seems like it's almost 10% of the time!

thingirl

07-20-2009, 02:16 PM

Umm, that would mean that it's right. Because 10% of 100 is 10.

Joddelle

07-20-2009, 02:21 PM

Umm, that would mean that it's right. Because 10% of 100 is 10.

Sardonic humor, it appears, is lost on some people.

thingirl

07-20-2009, 02:22 PM

HEY! I got it, after I posted.

Doolipalally

07-20-2009, 02:53 PM

What I hate is how often I roll 1 through 10 on those d100 checks. It seems like it's almost 10% of the time!

Repped for the laugh!

psychoadept

07-20-2009, 02:54 PM

I emailed the gm. Will let you know what, if any, response I get.

shadowblack

07-20-2009, 03:00 PM

Mind sharing what you wrote? I was thinking of making a suggestion to the GM, but if you have already made the same (or better) suggestion it would be pointless.

psychoadept

07-20-2009, 03:03 PM

This is the text of my email:

After consulting with other players at the forum, I'd like to request on all our behalves that the randomness of the various special encounters in Zumryn's Challenges be lessened a bit. A lot of us have reached a point where the frustration is taking the fun out of it.

It also seems to me that the more randomness there is (i.e. you have a random chance to find the ghost in Bone Horde or the tunnel in Ogredom, then *another* random roll to get the reward from the ghost or find the red door, and each layer of randomness multiplies your chance of failure...) the more it favors the players who have time to rerun the challenges even with the reset timers. If the reset timer didn't start if you quit without saving or were killed it would be a different situation, because then even players like me who only have the chance to play for brief periods once or twice a day can retry it a few times to improve their result. As it is, the Battlegrounds are beginning to seem like a huge waste of time because if I don't find what I'm looking for *and* get a good roll on it, I've wasted my opportunity to play Sryth on something really unproductive.

Even if the bonus we get to the random rolls were increased it would help some. I mean, it seems a little weird that characters with all their stats maxed out only have a 50% chance on many of the random rolls. It'd be nice to have a good chance of using the healing orbs and black orbs and things when we find them, too. But I'm most worried about the high-reward encounters, not the minor helper encounters.

Here's the relevant forum thread, if you're interested in other players' responses:[URL]

Thanks for your time! I hope you take it as proof that you've made a great game that we're getting this worked up about it.

Psychoadept

shadowblack

07-20-2009, 03:18 PM

My idea:
After we finally find Teek and he gives us the two gems he has he also shows us how to get to the temple. This would allow us to visit the temple without having to rely on chance the find the portal, so one random element would be removed. The rest would be the same as now (the drain of Nevernal and the random rolls at the traps), so it would be like a replayable with no healing and thus a high chance to die. But at least WE would choose when to start the temple instead of relying on chance.

What do you guys think?

Oldschool

07-20-2009, 03:51 PM

I would be happy if all of the reset timers were just cut in half.

As Psychoadept stated, some of us only have a limited time to play in a day/week and even 1 hour resets like Axepath, can result in only 1 run a day for some.

I know that the content load should off set the reset of the grinders (Axepath, Jadefang, etc....) coupled with the battlegrounds challenges and Tarn, but some don't like/frequent all of the spots for whatever reason.

I included a list of avaliabe replayable content (it's bigger than I remembered).

|
0 reset time|30 minute reset.
Explore the Realms at Random|Explore the Village of Hawklor
Tarkhald Crypt|Bentlimb Woods
The Old North Woods|The Blustery Wood
Have a Random Encounter Here (Trithik)|Fang Ridge
Have a Random Encounter Here (Talinus)|
|
60 minute reset.|90 minute reset.
Axepath|Jadefang
Yir-Tannon|
Bat Cave|
|
180 minute reset.|24 hour reset
Tarn|Cave of the Ice Troll
Battleground (LOO)|CHR
Battleground (BHC)|
|
Random Reset time.|
The Ruins of Tarramyre|
Wurmwrit's Farm|
Ildraria's Lair----->|Ildraria's guards
The Redwolf of Sageholt----->|Snarling wolfkin

The list may or maynot be complete. Feel free to add to it..... (that goes for the GM too!)

Nice list and repped. The only thing I seen missing was Ashlyre. I'd like the timers dealt with in some fashion for the same reason. Either cut down or like Havoc mentioned on the old forum tweaked to allow a set number of runs per server day. Before some of the hardcore grinders go :eek: I'll get back to that momentarily. Also the mp's seem to be another thing altogether and if dealt with should probably be done separately. Also most folks are probably only interested or exasperated by timers on the "traditional replayables" (have I been around that long :) already) and the new Battlegrounds stuff.

Keeping the grinding gurus and "don't fix it if it ain't broken" in mind this could be adjusted to allow a maximum set number of grinds then the timers could kick in. This is where things might get a little snafued if I were to "do the math" because a math wiz I am not so I'll give the fundamentals.

For example, depending on the scenario, folks could get a set number of runs in without the timer restrictions. After those are done the timers would kick in. Being realistic this would probably be a low number as the whole reason for the timers in my opinion are to keep a significant number of players from amassing extreme xp quickly and possibly losing interest which would affect the GM's pocketbook proportionately. There are other reasons that are connected to this theory but that "horse has been beat to death" on the old forum and occasionaly in somewhat derogatory fashion so let's not go there please.

I'm hazarding a guess that interest in the explorable areas ain't near as much once the first run stuff is completed. Also their mechanics would seem to allow an increase in number of explorations per cycle which should be easy to implement.

CHR and Moonpath could simply be cut down with this caveat of sorts. Doing so before the Ice Shield is retrieved in Moonpath may not be the best idea. After the Shield is obtained is another matter altogether. Also I'm hazarding another guess here but I daresay a large number of folks probably avoid the CHR and Moonpath once the shield is obtained. I'd definitely like to see Moonpath's timer tweaked to mirror the CHR and be on a server reset and not an actual 24 hour one.

In closing ( :rolleyes:finally for anyone still with me;) ) this as all tweaks should be put into the context of how hard would this be too implement or more bluntly how much of the GM's time is this going to take and detract from other Srythian matters like content development. Also I'm sure the GM has his own reasons for timers and while he's very open and receptive to feedback this may be one of those issues on which he is steadfast.

smv1973

07-20-2009, 04:00 PM

Oldschool

07-20-2009, 04:03 PM

Psychoadept's post brings adds another very valid point to my previous post. The randomness or to be a bit cheeky the apparent non randomness of those content encounters (i.e. gems) especially and to a lesser degree the special encounters (i.e. orbs, ghostly girl) which is a bit of a separate matter.

Rep to Psychoadept for his thoughts on the matter which were nicely done and for his initiative to email the GM.

thingirl

07-20-2009, 06:14 PM

I would like to see the Moonpath become a normal grind spot once the player gets the ice shield. The Moonpath could have the same timer as Jadefang 90 minutes or even 2 hours. The 24 hour wait has to go.

My idea: While you're getting the Ice Shield, the reset time is 12 hrs OR once a day (i.e. not 24 hours). After you get it, the reset timer goes down to 90 mins. / 2 hrs. like smv said.

psychoadept

07-20-2009, 09:14 PM

Thanks for the reps everybody!

One thing that crossed my mind while I was writing the email to the GM is that IF the new quickstone power allows us to have abilities over 20, that would have a significant effect on the landscape in the Challenges.

psychoadept

07-20-2009, 09:18 PM

What do you guys think?

I like it!

One thing that I'm occasionally aware of is that a new player coming to this in a few months or a year may have an entirely different experience than we do, since various other pieces will have been filled in by then and it may be a far less aggravating experience. Something like free access to the temple would certainly qualify.

psychoadept

07-21-2009, 12:01 AM

Don't know if this was inspired by my email or not, but it's different:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/psychoadept/th_whoa.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/psychoadept/?action=view&current=whoa.jpg)

Elrond

07-25-2009, 03:06 AM

How about talking about randomness in xp rewards? I'd love to see standardized xp rewards; as I just cannot swallow different rewards for the same monster. Also, I'd like to see the minimum threshold raised when using restoration out of battle .... lvl 80 restoration healing 8 sp is a pain with NvR playing such an important role in Zum's place!

Badstench

07-25-2009, 06:32 AM

I have to admit, I read the first page of this thread and thought... what a bunch of whining, sycophantic, gimme-gimme, moaners.

How can the randomness be wrong? Everyone's in the same boat! The fact that people who play more get more chances for success... ummm... duh, yeah!

But then I thought... nah, won't say that... it's exactly the sort of thing I used to spout on about in posts as long as your fore-arm that gained me a reputation for being controversially opinionated.

phew... glad I stopped myself in time.

Joddelle

07-25-2009, 07:38 AM

Hehe - I said it already Stinky, though I framed it as a joke.

psychoadept

07-26-2009, 04:30 PM

How can the randomness be wrong? Everyone's in the same boat! The fact that people who play more get more chances for success... ummm... duh, yeah!

That's a valid point. :)

My issue was not so much that randomness was more random for some people than others as that the randomness was/is killing productivity in general. Could be just as aggravating for players with lots of time to spend, really. I was just feeling the lack of productivity intensely since I have so little time to play. Personally, I don't care if everybody else were to get their gems or whatever done faster as long as when I have time to play I have a good chance of getting my own.

Taleria

07-27-2009, 01:27 PM

I agree. The probability of finding special encounters should be increased. I mean, that's the very reason I never got the Finger of Tarramyre. I was playing and the weapons never dropped, and due to my disability, navigation and clicking is much slower than for most of you. So something that can take 5-10 minutes for you probably takes 30 for me. That said, it got to be just plain drudgery, since MPs require speed to make it worthwhile experience-wise. The battlegrounds have already kind of lost their appeal for me, since there's no real story to it and we're not really replaying for them, anyway. I like Shadowblack's idea to make the temple a separate location.

I think this is more frustrating because it's part of a quest series. It's similar to the Wand of Dragonfire. Also, given that the temple doesn't allow Restoration and has many checks, just finding the dang thing is one hurtle out of many. And you could still die after you get a gem.

I'm not really sure what my point was in saying all this, except that making the temple too rare might just elicit a relieved response and not one of satisfaction when the goal is finally accomplished. And that translates to a bad game experience.

solitu

07-27-2009, 01:49 PM

I totally forgot how challenging the MP scenarios are for you, which somehow makes me a little sad. Sorry for having told you that they're easy and that you have no choices. :(

Well according to my experience the weapons and the bands are a lot easier to get when the demon is relatively unscathed. I'm not 100% sure, but at least that is the case with bands for me.

But I suggest that you tell the GM directly. I think it's reasonable to let visually-challenged players to have another way to get the finger (and the wand fragments maybe) and replenish the bands. Maybe he can make a special version, which works like QS / the wand... 3 times, or 6 times a day maybe.

As for the gems... just don't bother to get them all in a short time. See them as something you get only when you're lucky. Don't bother to clear all the snares either if you're not a lucky person. This is how I got all my 10 gems.

Taleria

08-02-2009, 01:22 PM

Oh, I don't mind getting the Wand and the Finger in traditional ways. It's just that that's the only reason I'd venture into an MP. In fact, I'd probably leave before the battle ended if I got the required number of items in time. I also don't mind using the standard versions of the weapons. I don't think it'd be fair to change them, and it's not really necessary. Having the drop rates be frequent is all the change I need, and since that's been implemented, I can deal with working to get the items.

I haven't found the temple yet, but I only run LoO once in a while. It gets tedious after a while. I'm in no rush. The game should bring me joy, not frustration, so I only run LoO when I feel like it and just go with fate.

thingirl

08-04-2009, 01:04 AM

LOL! Taleria, you're not British, are you?

Taleria

08-23-2009, 12:59 PM

Nope. Definitely American. But I'm familiar with the slang the Ogredom abbreviation conjures up.

thingirl

08-23-2009, 07:02 PM

That's why I ALWAYS say Ogerdom.

Elrond

08-25-2009, 05:00 AM

Nope. Definitely American. But I'm familiar with the slang the Ogredom abbreviation conjures up.

I'm glad the GM didn't name the bowl the "Bowl of Ogre Blood."

thingirl

08-25-2009, 02:37 PM

Shut up! That's not funny, you boy!

Elrond

08-26-2009, 09:33 AM

I guess you can call it "tastless humor." But if it wasn't funny, then it wasn't humor and is only tastless! Oh well!

thingirl

08-26-2009, 01:07 PM

Might be funny to a guy. However, since this IS a public forum...

Elrond

08-26-2009, 05:06 PM

Might be funny to a guy. However, since this IS a public forum...

Thingirl, this (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+boob&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)might be interesting to know! And as you can see, the possibilities vary and are not all "offensive!" ;)

thingirl

08-26-2009, 06:34 PM

OK, fine. But the first defanition that comes to mind is the offensive one. And it's probally the same for most guys.

Elrond

08-26-2009, 10:43 PM

Thingirl, I am hereby apologizing profusely for the offense and I'm dropping it right here. No need to prolong this any further. And congrats on your commendable forum contribution. Your post total is impressive.
All the best.

thingirl

08-26-2009, 10:53 PM

I will drop it too. And thank you for the compliment.

Oldschool

06-04-2010, 05:59 PM

Not so random thread revival..........

Ring of Motley Wonder indeed. ;)

scout1idf

06-04-2010, 06:03 PM

Not so random thread revival..........

Ring of Motley Wonder indeed. ;)
Idle for almost a year. Nice going Oldschool......;)

Oldschool

06-04-2010, 06:07 PM

Well I'll take partial blame or credit ;) but the rest lies on the Painted Peddler and Varkyn's shoulders.

Too bad "Ring of Mayhem" was already taken. Although it would have a different meaning the potential for it "to fit" is definitely there.

No wonder the ole Painted Peddler moves around so much. Maybe he'll go into business with Faradmyn for one of his "Grand" :rolleyes: Estates. And since he seems to be a source of high falutin' items maybe Rokmokkora will show up and wanna join the partnership.

Would serve 'em all right. :D

Oldschool

06-09-2010, 12:36 AM

Come one come all!

The Painted Peddler is proud to announce the sale of a very unique and powerful item - Varkyn's Ring of Motley Wonder.

And as a side benefit you get to visit Varkyn's Tower and none other than Varkyn himself - multiple times nonetheless.

Which has become as much fun as a friggin'

http://odcclub.com/Monkeys_in_barrel.gif

Well I feel a bit better now - have to wait and see if it lasts past two hours or not. :rolleyes::)