Universal multiplayer issues

[thingirl]

10/5/10 - Multiplayer Combat Updates

A multitude of updates to the multiplayer combat system are having their finishing touches applied and are now being tested. These updates will soon be put live.

These changes (many of which came from player suggestions) have been designed to greatly enhance the gameplay experience for those adventurers who bravely engage in the multiplayer combat scenarios.

The first multiplayer combat scenario to make use of this new and improved system will be 'The Oakenking' -- not in any way related to the Oakaruk!

Once 'The Oakenking' scenario has been put live and sufficiently tested, the current array of multiplayer combats will be transitioned to the new system.

More updates on the new system soon!

Thoughts? We already have reduced SP, so...

I wonder if this will have anything to do with any of the remaining creatures on the BOG.

[Oldschool]

I'm guessing yes on the BOG. I'm curious if we'll have combat results as with the older MPs or none as with Ulgror. I'm hoping for the former as well as I hope the rest screen is not like Ulgror's or Tarramyre's. And I'm hoping initially the SP for 'The Oakenking' will be significant and/or the reset times short. After all, I'm guessing it'll be standing room only for awhile.

[scout1idf]

I'm guessing yes on the BOG. I'm curious if we'll have combat results as with the older MPs or none as with Ulgror. I'm hoping for the former as well as I hope the rest screen is not like Ulgror's or Tarramyre's. And I'm hoping initially the SP for 'The Oakenking' will be significant and/or the reset times short. After all, I'm guessing it'll be standing room only for awhile.

I was thinking that the combat result screens were added later in all new MP's. (maybe after testing was complete and bugs were worked out.) I can't remember for sure.

Personally, I kinda miss the expandable combat result screens we use to have. It was interesting to look back through the battle to see what was going on with others (beyond the current number of entries).

As for the rest points, I agree. I hate the extra steps to get to the rest points.

[Oldschool]

Continuing a conversation from one of the specific mp threads.....

The Redwolf of Sageholt is no more. The hulking wolf creature was valiantly engaged by a brave band of Sryth's most illustrious heroes in a brutal battle that lasted 2 hour(s) and 37 minute(s).

It was ultimately the illustrious adventurer, Brutus (vinnie), who brought down Talderus Redborn.

Wielding his trusted weapon (Shimmering Silver Longsword), the valiant Brutus ended the menace of Talderus Redborn by dealing out a total of 3568 point(s) of damage in his final engagement with the hulking wolf creature.

Here are the names of some of the bravest adventurers who stood against Talderus Redborn, and the damage they scored against the hulking wolf creature...

Adventurer Damage
1. Jamie (glowworm) 14,736
2. Tain Shatterstan (blgbadvv0lf) 4,874
3. Bimbo (bibs) 4,439
4. Brutus (vinnie) 4,098
5. Beth Draedon (donmoody) 3,332
6. Chareos (connovar) 2,687

Hmmm What's the general opinion on this? I came in at around 25% and found Jamie all on his own. I figured that I would help out and then gracefully retire when the puppy was low so that Jamie could get the Killing Blow. I didn't use my BOGs for the same reason.

Then Brutus came along, fought one round for 530 damage and had to flee then hit the puppy with BOGs for 3568 and gets KB.

Is this ok, (not that anything can be done about it :-) ), but just wanted to see what other people think.

Congrats Jamie anyway :-)

Chareos I forget you were on a "Sryth Sabbatical" as this comes up every now and again as it's one of the few things in the game and forum that gets folks stirred up. And while we're on the issue I'm guessing some of the impending mp tweaks [DEJINX] will deal with "KB stealing" as I'm making an educated guess the GM has received considerable feedback regarding the issue.

My personal take is that I don't engage in what I consider KB "stealing". That's not to say I haven't had my head up my keister and occasionally stolen some as I have. However with that said I think anything is fair game in the mps including KB "stealing". However it does get tiresome sometimes when the same folks repeatedly show up in the closing rounds to get the KB. I'm not suggesting that's the case in the mp that's quoted above by the way. And Chareos hit on another issue that gets irksome at times - when you've come in late and all the other participant(s) are ones that you feel should have a clear shot at the KB only to have someone come in under the wire after you've withdrew to "steal" it.

To me and again this isn't passing judgment on anyone - it's more an issue of manners than anything. And to put it in its proper perspective here's my thoughts in a nutshell about the issue, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcyOoPDlSuU ;) Hopefully you find that humorous - at least somewhat. As I've said numerous times it's a game after all - a damn fine one but it's still a game.

[Chareos]

Lmao to the clip mate :-)

Sorry I posted in the wrong thread.

[texlaw1992]

Obviously I side with Oldschool on this point - while mistakes do happen, people should not intentionally join an MP at the end just to get the KB or use BOGs at the end for the same purpose.

While not much can be done with respect to those who are not members of the forum, I think a forum member who persists in such conduct may deserve a couple of negative reps.

[Lightwielder]

While not much can be done with respect to those who are not members of the forum, I think a forum member who persists in such conduct may deserve a couple of negative reps.
Well, vinnie is actually a member of the Forum.

The Redwolf of Sageholt is no more. The hulking wolf creature was valiantly engaged by a brave band of Sryth's most illustrious heroes in a brutal battle that lasted 0 hour(s) and 50 minute(s).

It was ultimately the illustrious adventurer, Brutus (vinnie), who brought down Talderus Redborn.

Wielding his trusted weapon (Shimmering Silver Longsword), the valiant Brutus ended the menace of Talderus Redborn by dealing out a total of 5728 point(s) of damage in his final engagement with the hulking wolf creature.

Here are the names of some of the bravest adventurers who stood against Talderus Redborn, and the damage they scored against the hulking wolf creature...

Adventurer Damage
1. John Ardin (lightwielder) 26,095
2. Brutus (vinnie) 8,598

Interrupted my solo, and stole the KB. This is getting irritating. Brutus seems to be sniping weak MP's with his BOG Blasts. I ignored a battle entirely at the Ruins of Tarramyre(wanting to recharge my Finger), because the player there seemed to be soloing, or doing a good job at it at least. I came to Sageholt, completely fresh battle. Half an hour in and down to 20%, wiped by Brutus' BOG Blast.

[spencer]

Well, vinnie is actually a member of the Forum.



Interrupted my solo, and stole the KB. This is getting irritating. Brutus seems to be sniping weak MP's with his BOG Blasts. I ignored a battle entirely at the Ruins of Tarramyre(wanting to recharge my Finger), because the player there seemed to be soloing, or doing a good job at it at least. I came to Sageholt, completely fresh battle. Half an hour in and down to 20%, wiped by Brutus' BOG Blast.

I have self-imposed a moratorium on myself for BOGing the KB. I was doing it for a while because I got fed up with others doing it and losing a good many KB. One thing I will add, Lightwielder, is that I think you have a legit beef about the KB... as far as interrupting your solo...I don't think that's a big deal 1. because there's no way to tell if someone has done all the damage up to a certain point and 2. what you might think of interruption, others might think as assistance...anyway, my two cents on that deal.

[Oldschool]

Realizes just how limited his online gaming perspective is......

Curious I just googled kill stealing aka ks and variants of it. The results were interesting to say the least.

So I did a wiki search, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_stealing

Just found the above interesting.

[Lightwielder]

Realizes just how limited his online gaming perspective is......

Curious I just googled kill stealing aka ks and variants of it. The results were interesting to say the least.

So I did a wiki search, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_stealing

Just found the above interesting.

You didn't know that? That's been around pretty much since the dawn of multiplayer gaming.

I have self-imposed a moratorium on myself for BOGing the KB. I was doing it for a while because I got fed up with others doing it and losing a good many KB. One thing I will add, Lightwielder, is that I think you have a legit beef about the KB... as far as interrupting your solo...I don't think that's a big deal 1. because there's no way to tell if someone has done all the damage up to a certain point and 2. what you might think of interruption, others might think as assistance...anyway, my two cents on that deal.
Oh, granted. It's more of an "adding insult to injury" sort of thing. The Killing Blow is worth actual experience, the Solo is just an Achievement for the club. Losing a solo might not matter so much to players that are in the Solo MP club already, but I've have tried repeatedly and failed. I still value the Killing Blow more, however.

Besides, I'm a Legendary Berserker. That's good enough for me.

[Doolipalally]

... as far as interrupting your solo...I don't think that's a big deal 1. because there's no way to tell if someone has done all the damage up to a certain point and 2. what you might think of interruption, others might think as assistance...anyway, my two cents on that deal.

I have to agree here. The business of whether or not you step in when someone appears to be the only one fighting is complicated. As spencer says, what one person sees as interference another might see as welcome assistance.

The point about there being no way to tell if someone has done all the damage so far is also one I run into frequently, because of the times I play: I quite often find when I look at battle results that the whole thing took several hours, and there were a few people who did some damage and then (presumably) went to bed, so the apparent solo-er came in much later.

There's also the question of degree: when is it OK to join in? If someone seems to be the only one fighting and the SP is at 80% I'd always just jump in without worrying about it. So when does one stop doing that? 20%? 30%? 40%?

I'll put it on record here that I for one am never worried about solos, and if anyone sees that I'm the only one fighting you're more than welcome to help. I'll be happy that I don't have to spend as much time to finish the fight. Of course, if you'd then like to hold off on the KB on the grounds that I've done most of the work I'd always be grateful... :D

[Lightwielder]

Perhaps you missed the point I was trying to make...I'm not miffed about the Solo break at all. I simply chose to comment on it, because it was there. The real subject was the Kill steal. Dooli, I got the feeling that you were commenting on my last post.

Maybe I'm wrong, and you weren't. Perhaps I worded it poorly, so I'm going to clarify...

I agree with you, Spencer. The solo break is an "I can't really do much about it, they have no way of knowing." I understand that. I simply added the solo break as an "adding insult to injury" note. It's the Kill Stealing that gets me(and the fact that it seems to be Brutus more often than not). I figure that since everyone seems to be venting here, here would be the proper place to post it.

I don't want to sound like I'm arguing, but it also feels like I'm being challenged. Maybe I worded it poorly, and that caused you to interpret it differently than I intended it, so I simply want to clarify. Thank you.

[Oldschool]

Not to speak for Dooli 1) because I can't quite get the pitch or pronunciation of a British female with a possible Russian twang down (too much redneck hillbilly)....... :cool: and 2) don't you hate a smart ass........ ;)

I took it that Dooli was agreeing with Spencer not the other way but anyhoo.....

Good points about the solo'ing. And I agree that some folks would see interference as help and vice versa. As to when to enter when you think someone's soloing - again that's a matter of opinion.

If I think someone is soloing and it's not what I consider early I usually stay away. I also try to stay out of Tarramyre if it looks like I might be interfering in someone hunting drops and it's late in the mp - again hard to discern. And the interface listing players previously there can be confusing (i.e. they were there but didn't join the fight).

If I see someone possibly soloing and decide to come in I try not to just come in for a round or two and leave. I try to stick around and do at least some moderate damage. Which is a bit easier for me since if I'm pressed for time I can usually cycle the alts in for a BOG blast or two.

[Doolipalally]

Sorry, I'm the one who worded it poorly. First thing in the morning and my brain hadn't woken up properly! Lightwielder, I recognised that you weren't complaining about the solo interruption as such and that it wasn't the main point of your post. (However, and I realise this is picky, I don't think you can say that you're 'not miffed at all' about something if you also feel it 'adds insult to injury'. It annoyed you, coming on top of the kill steal. That's fair enough!)

I just wanted to elaborate on Spencer's points, because to me they raise interesting discussion topics about MPs. The fact that we only get to see the last three rounds of the battle in the report - and not even that for Ulgror - and the fact that even with the new reduced SP totals battles can last for several hours, depending on who's around, both mean that we usually only get a fragmented view of the fight until it's over. When we first enter an MP, we don't necessarily know how many people are fighting with us, how long the battle's been going on, and how quickly it's progressing. I would really like to be able to see more of the battle history before I join. Maybe that would also go some way to discourage kill stealers, who would then be able to see that someone's been bashing away on their own for the last 40 minutes. OK, maybe that's wishful thinking...

[scout1idf]

OK, maybe that's wishful thinking...

Considering some of the habitual Kill Stealer’s I've had to deal with in my limited MP playing, wishful thinking is right on the money.

Unfortunately the majority of them don't have an account on the forum so I can tell them how I feel about it.

[jimyred]

My personal thoughts . . .

1. If it bothers you that much to be "Kill Stolen From" (?), don't mess with MPs! I have fought dozens of MPs, and I am still joyfully surprised when I land the KB. As my momma said, "If Joey makes you unhappy, don't hang out with Joey"

2. What is the big deal about getting the KB? Is it just the XP? Cause there are much more profitable XP grinding spots that the MP battles. In the 40 ish minutes that an avg short MP battle goes, I can run Tarn, Axepath, and possibly Yir-Tanon, which all give guaranteed AS&P rewards, plus you get loot, potentially more Battle Markers . . .

3. If the GM had thought that it was a big deal to make sure that the top workers got the KB, he could have put in a check saying that you had to do X amount of damage to be able to get the KB, or he would have made the reward for the person that dealt the most damage. He also probably would have made it so the BOG doesn't make it so easy to walk in and get the KB.

All that being said, I understand how this can frustrate people, so I'm not trying to knock your frustration. I'm just throwing out my personal thoughts. Who knows, maybe with the MP updates, KB rewards will be done away with, and a AS&P reward will go to everyone based on damage dealt.

[Scarbrow]

Who knows, maybe with the MP updates, KB rewards will be done away with, and a AS&P reward will go to everyone based on damage dealt.

I'm not a regular at MP battles or at MP discussions, but from the little I know it seems those two are the main points of concern. It would be great to have them settled once and for all.

[spencer]

Kill stealing has long been a point of debate here and there are proponents of both sides of the issue. Though the proponents who think it is cool to take the KB away, don't post all that much :). It is a matter of choice. If I feel agrieved and feel that someone has taken what I think I deserved (or at least someone I was fighting alongside deserved), then you can bet that I am going to squawk about it. What is the net effect of the squawking? Nada dern thing. Except I feel a little better. The BOGs add yet another layer to it, making it even simpler to steal the KB. I am guessing that it will not be possible to use a BOG for a KB soon and it may be tougher to steal the kill as well. Or, as some have suggested, maybe the GM will offer AS&P rewards for people who stood in the breach longer.

@Lightwielder, I was not challenging you, per se. I was giving another perspective and I do understand your frustration. I don't think anyone has been offended, or, at least, I hope no one is. Now, if anyone wants me to be offensive in my criticism, I can work that out for you as well :D

[Lightwielder]

@Lightwielder, I was not challenging you, per se. I was giving another perspective and I do understand your frustration. I don't think anyone has been offended, or, at least, I hope no one is. Now, if anyone wants me to be offensive in my criticism, I can work that out for you as well :D

No, it's fine now. I just thought I was being misunderstood.

[Elrond]

I have a problem with the term "stealing." I don't remember how I felt about it a couple of years ago; but today, my feeling is that anyone joining an MP at anytime and utilizing all legal game tools in his/her participation is not stealing anything from anyone. He/she is simply playing the game as designed by the GM.

(In all positive spirit) I'll now turn this on the GM because he's responsible for this. If he wasn't so darn enamored with randomness, he would have installed a logical reward formula. Giving the final xp reward based on damage dealt makes a ton of sense. But the GM wanted the KB to be random; and that won't make grinders happy. It is more in line with the rogue nature of randomness.

In brief, people playing the game without cheating are not thieves. If there are complaints, fire away at the GM.

Finally, the GM has promised to develop/upgrade/fix MP's. We'll wait and see if these include fixes to the perceived KB theft!

[Ankhmahor]

Adventurer Damage
1. Ankhmahor (ankhmahor) 16,122
2. Lady Jemia (summermoon2) 12,129
3. SCOUT (scout1idf) 5,554
4. Hahader (8882548) 2,623
5. Beth Draedon (donmoody) 2,569
6. Brutus (vinnie) 2,476


The gruesome battle against the great dragon, Ildraria is over...and it was you who struck the final blow!

Otay, all is well and good. BUT I actually fled on my last round. :confused:

[scout1idf]

I showed up at 22% and left around 3% so you guys could have the kill.

I BoG'ed her (around 4400 damage give or take) at 22% and by the end of that round she was showing 11%.
I don't know if someone else BoG'ed her at the same time or not but that sure was a big drop in her %.

[Ankhmahor]

I showed up at 22% and left around 3% so you guys could have the kill.

I BoG'ed her (around 4400 damage give or take) at 22% and by the end of that round she was showing 11%.
I don't know if someone else BoG'ed her at the same time or not but that sure was a big drop in her %.

Thanks for that Scout but my point was a bit different. What surprised me was that I wasn't actually attacking when I got the KB. I was using Restoration and then I fleeing, when I got it. Seems a bit illogical. Unless Ankh tripped over his cape and stabbed the beast while trying run for his life :)

[scout1idf]

Thanks for that Scout but my point was a bit different. What surprised me was that I wasn't actually attacking when I got the KB. I was using Restoration and then I fleeing, when I got it. Seems a bit illogical. Unless Ankh tripped over his cape and stabbed the beast while trying run for his life :)

My theory on that, though I have no proof, is that maybe one of your first few hits in the round was the actual killing blow (game mechanics related) but it is also programmed to complete the round you are on.

I've noticed the red bar move even though he/she was already at 1% when I entered the round and it still said 1% just before I was forced to retreat on the final round.

I'm guessing that the red status bar is the actual (mechanical) life of the boss and the % is just visual life (for us).

As I said, it's just a theory of mine with nothing to back it up......

[Ankhmahor]

My theory on that, though I have no proof, is that maybe one of your first few hits in the round was the actual killing blow (game mechanics related) but it is also programmed to complete the round you are on.

I've noticed the red bar move even though he/she was already at 1% when I entered the round and it still said 1% just before I was forced to retreat on the final round.

I'm guessing that the red status bar is the actual (mechanical) life of the boss and the % is just visual life (for us).

As I said, it's just a theory of mine with nothing to back it up......

That makes sense. And leads me to believe that I should perhaps accept some facts as is and try not to wonder too much. :D

Though I can't help but wonder how things are going to look when the MP updates get implemented. :)

[Doolipalally]

I 'broke' Talderus Redborn a few weeks ago by fleeing on the final round when there was no-one else fighting. I think there must have been a conflict between the fact that I'd got the KB in before I fled, and the fact that at the time the system was set up so you couldn't get the KB if you fled. The result was that the fight ended with no rewards. I emailed the GM about it. Maybe this is his response - in order to prevent that problem from happening again, you can now get the KB even if you flee.

[Oldschool]

I 'broke' Talderus Redborn..............

LOL....... just had a mental image.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/2949557903_cd5f851b3b.jpg?v=0

Edit: Iirc the 'other' English version is "backed". But since I'm not sure or how that will "translate" for others, http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071221143130AA5XWsb

Bastench what was that about having to explain a joke............. :rolleyes:

Translation or not - yeah I know my sense of humor is a bit "unusual". ;)

[Oldschool]

An alternative meaning for the acronym BOG that "fits" this thread.....

As in........ "Way to BOG.........."

Or................... Bring on [the] Grief........... ;):cool:

[Chareos]

The Greater Demon Xarakk is no more. The greater demon was valiantly engaged by a brave band of Sryth's most illustrious heroes in a brutal battle that lasted 1 hour(s) and 17 minute(s).

It was ultimately the illustrious adventurer, Kestrall (kestrall), who brought down Xarakk.

Wielding his trusted weapon (Shimmering Silver Longsword), the valiant Kestrall ended the menace of Xarakk by dealing out a total of 4044 point(s) of damage in his final engagement with the greater demon.

Here are the names of some of the bravest adventurers who stood against Xarakk, and the damage they scored against the greater demon...

Adventurer Damage
1. Chareos (connovar) 35,850
2. Kestrall (kestrall) 5,477

There I am battling away for over an hour and then Kestrall turns up to fight two normal rounds and then launch his BOG attack. I'm finding this increasingly frustrating!!!

Unfortunately Kestrall is not a member of the forun or I would pm him. It seems there are a few people now who are waiting until the 4 or 5 % stage and then using their BOGs. I think the new multiplayer tweaks should make BOGs unusable after 10%.

Grrrrrrrrr I'm off to pull wings off flies :-)

[texlaw1992]

Several forum members who were stealing KBs intentionally (usually with the BOGs) have gotten much better about not doing so. Unfortunately, there's little to be done about non-forum members except targeting their MPs and stealing their KBs (lol).

I inadvertently wandered into Xarrak's lair and attacked, then saw he was at 1%. This time I immediately hit Flee and avoided stealing Summermoon's KB. Having been tripped up at Talderus a few weeks ago, I was not going to make the same mistake twice.

[summermoon2]

I appreciate your consideration! Thank you! :)

[scout1idf]

I don't remember seeing this before, is it new??

Special Multiplayer Scenario Experience Bonuses
The Great Dragon - Ildraria

XP +64 You've been awarded a total of 64 Experience...
64 xp applied to general...What I mean is, Ulric fought in only 1 round and died before it ended.

I don't remember getting any XP for getting killed.....

[Oldschool]

Not sure if it is new. If so I'm guessing it's just that - new and part of the mp tweaks the GM mentioned a bit ago. Or it could it be related to the recent change re: damage racking up when fleeing after 15 rounds? Maybe it also racks up and is stored if you get killed after 15 rounds.

Unless the tweak was just initiated within the last week or so I'm guessing it's the latter and he at least got 15 rounds in before he got killed.....?

I know I was in one fairly recently when the boss was hovering on the doorstep and accidentally engaged the mp. Normally I channel Conjuration until I get a flee screen to avoid the KB. However since we now know the use of powers affects your melee damage I just hit a few defensive licks then fled. I'm almost positive I didn't get any rewards. I'm guessing no xp was awarded since no credit for the damage was since I fled before round 15.

[scout1idf]

Unless the tweak was just initiated within the last week or so I'm guessing he at least got 15 rounds in before he got killed.....?


I'm positive he had more than 15 rounds. I was thinking that it was only going to be 2 or 3 more rounds and he would be forced to retreat. Then the big one hit and well, the rest is history......

[Oldschool]

WTF...... :eek:

I just fought a round in an mp then was told 60 minutes ago I did so.....

Then I realized the time just changed during the mp as I happen to be in the same time zone as the server.


* 60 minutes ago ... Arakin, wielding (Gorapthor's Dragonmaul) dealt 1193 points of damage to Talderus Redborn and left the fight severely wounded....
* 60 minutes ago ... Hawk, wielding (Trielra's Staff) dealt 4685 points of damage to Talderus Redborn and escaped the fight unscathed....
* 61 minutes ago ... Arakin, wielding (Gorapthor's Dragonmaul) dealt 7124 points of damage to Talderus Redborn and left the fight slightly wounded....


Just thought that was interesting.

[scout1idf]

WOW!!!

That was a long round....:p

[shadowblack]

I don't remember seeing this before, is it new??

What I mean is, Ulric fought in only 1 round and died before it ended.

I don't remember getting any XP for getting killed.....
No, it's not new. As far as I know it has always been like that. In fact, currently getting yourself killed is the ONLY way to do 0 damage and get the min reward of 64 XP - due to the decreased Stamina of MP bosses any damage, no matter how low, is enough to get you more than 64 XP.

[scout1idf]

No, it's not new. As far as I know it has always been like that. In fact, currently getting yourself killed is the ONLY way to do 0 damage and get the min reward of 64 XP - due to the decreased Stamina of MP bosses any damage, no matter how low, is enough to get you more than 64 XP.

Thanks Shadowblack.

It's been a long time since Scout got killed in his first round and didn't go back.

As for my alts, they usually don't go to the MP's...

[Chareos]

The Greater Demon Xarakk is no more. The greater demon was valiantly engaged by a brave band of Sryth's most illustrious heroes in a brutal battle that lasted 0 hour(s) and 28 minute(s).

It was ultimately the illustrious adventurer, Jamie (glowworm), who brought down Xarakk.

Wielding her trusted weapon (Tzal-Toalth), and calling upon her mastery of magic (Gating ,Illusion), the valiant Jamie ended the menace of Xarakk by dealing out a total of 2802 point(s) of damage in her final engagement with the greater demon.

Here are the names of some of the bravest adventurers who stood against Xarakk, and the damage they scored against the greater demon...

Adventurer Damage
1. Chareos (connovar) 13,484
2. Grite (haplen) 10,387
3. Nolly (nolly) 8,452
4. Lady Jemia (summermoon2) 8,174
5. Jamie (glowworm) 2,802

Does this count? ;-)

[Taleria]

I know this argument is old already, but just wanted to weigh in with those who dislike kill stealing. My issue isn't so much that people come in late. For all I know, they just logged on and saw there was an MP going. But when they see the enemy is near death and then use combat items, it's really annoying. If I see that the same person has been working on a boss, or if I come in late, I just use Aggressive attacks. Sometimes, I don't even join in and just go to another MP or wait till the next fight.

Like Dooli, if I'm for some reason doing an MP by myself, I would welcome help. I don't like MPs much so don't play them often, but it doesn't mean I haven't been in a situation where my friends and I were working on a boss and then some "lurker" who came intermittently took the kill. And yes, when you start noticing the same names, inwardly, it's like, "Oh, no. Grrrr."

If I look at the leader board and see that the person who got the KB came in later in the fight but still scored something like 10,000 damage, I don't feel as bad. But if it's 5,000 or less, I immediately think the worst.

This also goes back to our discussion about the gems being aids to greater damage in the fight, rather than something that gets used at the end and you run the risk of the damage not counting. I tend to use combat items when the boss still has lots of health left so I can be sure every point counts.

My two cents.

[Elrond]

If I look at the leader board and see that the person who got the KB came in later in the fight but still scored something like 10,000 damage, I don't feel as bad. But if it's 5,000 or less, I immediately think the worst.

This also goes back to our discussion about the gems being aids to greater damage in the fight, rather than something that gets used at the end and you run the risk of the damage not counting.

A few days ago, I popped in and saw a boss at about 2%; and slammed him with my BOGs! 6K+ damage done, KB achieved, and all the damage counted in the final tally.

There are at least 28 MP's a day, which translates into about 200 MP's a week. On average, I have a shot at getting the killing blow 3-5 times a week. That leaves 195-197 KB's. So, in those 3-5 times, I won't shy from using my arsenal of weapons to get the KB if I want it.

Some players refrain from entering the final stretch if they arrive too late; or if one is doing a "solo MP" (BTW that's an oxymoron). That might seem as the "noble" thing to do; but it is unfair to try and hold everyone to that standard.

The GM has promised to tweak the MP's; and hopefully he'll make the improvements necessary to "safeguard" MP's from KB vultures (and I'm a declared vulture ;) ).

[Chareos]

A few days ago, I popped in and saw a boss at about 2%; and slammed him with my BOGs! 6K+ damage done, KB achieved, and all the damage counted in the final tally.

There are at least 28 MP's a day, which translates into about 200 MP's a week. On average, I have a shot at getting the killing blow 3-5 times a week. That leaves 195-197 KB's. So, in those 3-5 times, I won't shy from using my arsenal of weapons to get the KB if I want it.

Some players refrain from entering the final stretch if they arrive too late; or if one is doing a "solo MP" (BTW that's an oxymoron). That might seem as the "noble" thing to do; but it is unfair to try and hold everyone to that standard.

The GM has promised to tweak the MP's; and hopefully he'll make the improvements necessary to "safeguard" MP's from KB vultures (and I'm a declared vulture ;) ).

If you use that rationale, then maybe the people who were fighting that MP
also only have the opportunity 3-5 times a week. Someone has to spend time reducing the stamina of the MP beasties to enable a KB. Do you think it's fair that you should just come in at 2% and take the KB with your BOGs?

This has happened to me quite a few times in the last week or so and it frustrates me enormously.

I applaud the fact that you declare yourself a vulture and do not seek to make lame excuses for it. However, now that you have declared your position it's only fair that I let you know mine, in that I would negative rep you if you did it to me.

Nothing personal but just a different view.

[Oldschool]

ANNOUNCEMENT


Oldschool's Stable a 4 member roster of BOG, WoD and Battle Rage equipped adventurers would like to announce that they are available to reduce certain opponents' SP to a more manageable level. Payment can be in gold, high end items, XP, BMs and of course ATs. Use of Quickstone 20's and FoD charges not included.


;):cool:

[Chareos]

ANNOUNCEMENT


Oldschool's Stable a 4 member roster of BOG, WoD and Battle Rage equipped adventurers would like to announce that they are available to reduce certain opponents' SP to a more manageable level. Payment can be in gold, high end items, XP, BMs and of course ATs. Use of Quickstone 20's and FoD charges not included.


;):cool:

Lol where are you when I need you? :D

[Elrond]

An important thing to consider is to differentiate between a player who logs in and goes to the MP and participates regardless of the "moral" situation, and a player who lurks while people do the hard work before he/she jumps in towards the end to take a chance at the KB. Elrohir is openly of the first category; but not the second. I've never lurked and waited for the hard work to be done before snatching a KB.

If you use that rationale, then maybe the people who were fighting that MP also only have the opportunity 3-5 times a week. Someone has to spend time reducing the stamina of the MP beasties to enable a KB. Do you think it's fair that you should just come in at 2% and take the KB with your BOGs?

My post was clear in that I already did that.

I applaud the fact that you declare yourself a vulture and do not seek to make lame excuses for it. However, now that you have declared your position it's only fair that I let you know mine, in that I would negative rep you if you did it to me.

Nothing personal but just a different view.

The overriding view is that KB "theft" is bad. So, my inclination is to say that my view is different; and yours is popular status quo.

As to negative reps, they are part of the forum options; and anyone can use them to express their opinion on another player's actions or words. It is a right you have, Chareos; and you're most definitely entitled to use it. Nothing personal ;)

[mahansolo]

If you get killed in an MP battle, do you lose the damage done for that engagement?

[Elrond]

If you get killed in an MP battle, do you lose the damage done for that engagement?

No, you don't.

[Oldschool]

Like Elrond said MS you don't and on the reload you'll get WoD and FoD charges returned but not ones from the BOGs.

One thing to remember though if you score a killing blow save immediately because if you are slain, quit w/o saving, etc... you do lose the AS/P rewards.

Also if you get your general rewards and they include BMs from behind the blue door save as well. As far as I know you'll still be able to recoup your xp rewards if you have to reload w/o having saved but BMs will be lost. I think there is still a notice to that effect re: the BMs but I'm not positive.

[texlaw1992]

I've found out the hard way that if you get killed and then quit the game, even if you save, you will lose all the xp you've earned if you quit the game before the mp is finished. In other words, if you get killed and cannot stick around long enough doing other things for the MP to finish, go back, fight at least one round without dying, then save and you'll be fine.

[scout1idf]

Copied from Ulgror thread:

I want to register a complaint, if you are reading this MR. GM, I was stuck fighting tar men while the killing blow was struck!!!

I don't think it is fair to be kept from battle with the boss in his last 20% of life. (i say 20% because of the bog's) this is one thing that i think needs fixed asap.

[Badstench]

Have the multiplayer opponents (Xarakk in particular), been upgraded?

Xarakk just hit me for 129 damage! The most I've seen in the past is 110 damage.

Luckily, I managed to limp away with life intact.

[Oldschool]

Are you still jingle jangling when you walk?

Maybe your tinkly winkly belt is affecting your resilience and fortitude.

I mean if you're displaying moves and uttering taunts like these you gotta expect your bell to be rung (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpEpUBnfdKg). :cool::p

[Young Ned]

I mean if you're displaying moves and uttering taunts like these you gotta expect your bell to be rung (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpEpUBnfdKg). :cool::p

"You can ring my bell" is a taunt? I thought it was more of an invitation... ;)

[Lightwielder]

"You can ring my bell" is a taunt? I thought it was more of an invitation... ;)

Ditto. Shows what we know, doesn't it...(or how deep our minds are in that proverbial gutter)

[Syrius]

...when out of the blue you show up and start whaling away at the monster they're battling? The reason I ask this question is because I don't want to step on any toes trying to get a few damage points for my character.

Case in point, I came upon Lancelot battling the fierce Pumpkin, and decided to help out... I didn't want the KILL, just wanted to help him out by making his battle a little smoother and shorter. I helped some, but then noticed everyone else had quit battling the pumpkin except me... so, I took long rests to show I wasn't trying to steal someone's kill... and noticed that for awhile, I was the only one making a small dent against the Pumpkin. This caused me to back off completely for quite some time.

My consternation is this. If I appeared to be whaling away on your multiplayer against the Pumpkin, Lancelot, I wasn't really trying for the kill... only to trying help you out in the long run. I hope I didn't upset you by whaling away at the Pumpkin?

How do other adventurer's feel about this? Is it butting in to try to help others and not only your character? Just wondering? :)

[shadowblack]

Currently there's no way to tell for sure how long ago someone started fighting an MP boss or how much work that person has done. There's also no way to tell if someone is trying for a solo or not (in most cases the answer is "no", anyway). So there's no way to even nknow if you're "butting in", as you put in. So there's no point in worrying about it.

[Clubfinance]

I personally won't go for a killing blow unless I think I have done the majority of the damage. However, lots of other people try to steal the kill.

I recently backed off a fight at the end because someone had been spending a lot of effort on the fight and someone else came in at the last minute and stole the KB. Thought that was a bit rude.

I felt bad when I got the KB recently with 18,000 damage - as I noticed that someone else had been there ages as they had done more damage but were only averaging lower than 500 damage per round - they deserved the kill, but I didn't know this until afterwards..

EDIT: To get back to the original point - don't find it a problem muscling in, I think it's taking the KB that is most annoying

[Oldschool]

Mod note: Merged a thread involving this post and the 3 preceding it with the current thread and left a one week expiring redirect for the old one.

SB summed it up pretty succinctly Syrius but here's my take on "butting" in and KB issues both.

First "older" members know how I feel about KBs. Personally I won't intentionally go for one unless I think I "deserve" it. However, that's my personal view and as far as I'm concerned they're fair game. "Stealing" and "deserve" are very subjective terms even though there may be some consensus for either/both.

And as Clubfinance points out just looking at the final score/damage sometimes doesn't give a fair appraisal of someone's involvement. "Younger" characters (low MR/SP) and folks with a slow(er) connection may put in just as much or more time but their score alone may belie that fact. Even more so since fleeing before round 15 means one's damage isn't recorded. On a side note, it seems as if it's the same if one is slain as Voltan BOG'd the Puppy recently and was slain and garnered 0 points. Although that could be if one is slain regardless as I'm not sure at what round he was slain as I led off with the BOG and spam attacked until then.

And the subject of "butting in" is even more subjective and harder to determine. There are a few situations where folks may view someone coming in as such as "butting in" such as if they're attempting a solo. The other instances don't have as much to do with someone coming in but hinges upon either if they get the KB or significantly shorten an mp when one is "drop hunting" (Tar, FoD items, Shards). And with Ulgror my opinion is if it is someone looking for the initial "entry fee". If it's to get additional ones to open the portal it's less of a concern since its a community effort and that could apply to everyone.

And as Texlaw said there is no way to no for certain whether someone is doing any of the above. Solo'ing might be determined by viewing the "Adventurers this location" and if both active and recent are blank I usually stay out if the mp's fairly far along. And if it's near the end and folks are showing in either but the battle results (which Ulgror doesn't have btw) indicate a possible solo I'll normally stay out as well. But like the KB that's my personal view and it doesn't bother me if I'm the one in there and someone comes in whether it be to help or "steal" the KB. Actually since I've got a solo solo and a stable solo (all four characters) I'm not concerned with 'em much at all.

Also one can't just assume that someone in there soloing is actually going for a solo. Some members have stated that any and all help is welcome in those cases. And it's probably safe to say there are other players of the same opinion that haven't stated so in open forum.

And I'm probably one of the biggest buttinskys there is since I usually run all four in for BOG hit and runs. I used to worry about doing such and ruining solos or fouling up drop hunts. While I still try to watch out for the solo issue I've pretty much stopped worrying about drop hunts since it's even harder to determine if someone is actually hunting a drop.

Just my thoughts....

[Oldschool]

Good example of scores/damage not being indicative of involvement.

http://www.srythforum.com/showthread.php?p=47177&postcount=686

Note: Noticed my earlier merger misplaced this thread. Moved back to original location (Multiplayer Scenarios as I accidentally merged them into Adventurer's Lounge :rolleyes: )

[Syrius]

All great advice... which I will try to adhere to... but just to be straightforward here... I'm a lowly leveled player, don't have many BOG's under my belt... SOooo... If I happen to come by and notice someone else who may frequent this forum, or anyone for that matter, I'm not after your "KB", I'm just trying to make a few measley damages XP. This last case was today I ran across the shards at Ildraria's Lair.

Since it's realitively hard to save anywhere during this battle, I didn't know if you died, you lose ALL shards. OUCH!:eek: I fought there for well over an hour and still lost out on aquiring ANY shards... my bad, I guess. Seemed a waste somewhat. Anywho, the moral of the story is, I'm NOT out after your kill... if I come by and battle, then either I'm trying to help out or trying to make a few XP's or to pick up a few of those elusive shards. :D

[Oldschool]

Btw Syrius saving after drops applies to all the mps as well as saving after you get the AS&P bonus for scoring a KB. Also if you claim your xp from "Behind the Blue Door" and get BMs you need to save immediately.

[scout1idf]

To avoid "Kill Stealing" I propose that the GM removes the kill reward and triples the reward for damage done for everyone.

This will (kinda) off-set the loss of the AS&P bonus for the one that got the killing blow, and make it better for those that should of got the kill (based on damage done) and didn't.

Just a thought.

[spencer]

I used to try and refrain from getting the KB if I had not been there very long. I just gave up. Too many other people were flitting in at the last minute and getting the KB. The only restriction I have on myself currently is that I try not to use the BOG to get the KB. Otherwise, all bets are off, as far as I am concerned. There are a few select players for whom I will leave if I see they have been there awhile and I have not.

As for butting in, I don't think anyone has a legitimate beef here. It is a part of the game that is open to all AG members. If someone wants to solo, they also just need to understand that people don't need their permission to attack the bad guy. I am always grateful when someone joins the fray to help get the monster closer to its death.

Finally, the GM has indicated that changes are forthcoming. It involves an MPS villain called the Oakenking and should be out, hopefully, in the near future. He has indicated he will tweak how an MPS will be run and the Oakenking is to be the trial for those changes.

That is all for now...please return to your slaying :)

[Oldschool]

Spencer's mention of the BOG reminds me. Veteran players know this and though it's been mentioned before and is probably in the wiki it bears repeating for newer players. If your in the final round and do not score the KB your damage won't be credited. That's another reason imo not to use the BOG in that final round. It'll be interesting to see what tweaks are unveiled with the new mp.

[Scarbrow]

Spencer's mention of the BOG reminds me. Veteran players know this and though it's been mentioned before and is probably in the wiki it bears repeating for newer players. If your in the final round and do not score the KB your damage won't be credited. That's another reason imo not to use the BOG in that final round. It'll be interesting to see what tweaks are unveiled with the new mp.

I didn't know that. But since I have no BOG on any character, that's hardly surprising. The wiki needs more work put on multiplayers, since I almost don't touch them.

[racey]

Currently there's no way to tell for sure how long ago someone started fighting an MP boss or how much work that person has done. There's also no way to tell if someone is trying for a solo or not (in most cases the answer is "no", anyway). So there's no way to even nknow if you're "butting in", as you put in. So there's no point in worrying about it.

It is true that there is no absolute way to know if a player is going for a solo but it doesn't hurt to look at the other adventurers in the area link (except for Ulgror) to see if anyone else has been there in the last hour (iirc). That would prevent a player from dropping in using their BOG and messing up a solo(not to mention arriving while the foe is hovering on deaths doorstep and below 10% life remaining) like what happened below:

Massive Pumpkin Beast is no more. The fearsome giant pumpkin was valiantly engaged by a brave band of Sryth's most illustrious heroes in a brutal battle that lasted 0 hour(s) and 22 minute(s).

It was ultimately the illustrious adventurer, Durge (racey), who brought down The pumpkin beast.

Wielding his trusted weapon (Shimmering Silver Longsword), the valiant Durge ended the menace of The pumpkin beast by dealing out a total of 3477 point(s) of damage in his final engagement with the fearsome giant pumpkin.

Here are the names of some of the bravest adventurers who stood against The pumpkin beast, and the damage they scored against the fearsome giant pumpkin...

Adventurer Damage
1. Durge (racey) 32,407
2. Shadowblack (shadowblack) 5,176

[shadowblack]

:rolleyes: Even if you look at the other adventurers in the area link how can you tell how much time has passed since the battle started, or how much damage the only person that has been there recently has actually done? There have been multiple cases where a battle started, character #1 did some damage and left, character #2 arrived, did some damage, and also left, then no one was there for an hour or two (or more), and then character #3 arrived and started attacking. Then character #4 arrives, and to that person it seems like character #3 is the only one who has been fighting the boss when that is not really the case, and when the battle ends it turns out he has actually done less damage than the two before him.

P.S.: As long as the enemy is above 10% I always use the BOGs to have a chance to get some Battle Markers. That is not going to change at least until we see what changes will be introduced when the Oakenking goes live. Just sayin'.

[texlaw1992]

OS posted a long message about something I had posted, but I'm not sure if he was actually referring to me. In any event, I firmly believe in no KB stealing (not intentionally anyway - I've goofed once or twice by joining an MP without paying attention to how close the baddie was to death).

I also do not interrupt solos if I can help it, solos being someone who's battled about 25-30% on their own (which is easy enough to check). Many months ago (I don't think there were BOGs then), someone complained that I'd interrupted their solo without realizing it, and so I've paid attention since then.

Note that the above rules do not apply if it's someone who has previously stolen a KB from me or interrupted a solo of mine. Turnabout is fair play.

Oh, and Syrius, I had no problem with you helping and appreciate that you were not trying to steal the KB. I actually kept moving between the pumpkin and the dragon without anyone else showing up - a slow MP night.

[Scarbrow]

I firmly believe the only limits to the player's behaviors should be the rules of the game. If you can do it in-game, without resorting to exploits, then it is legit. I would even go as far as to admit defining "wrongdoing" as doing something that is later corrected by the GM, such as exploiting Thaoni's unexpected lack of limitation in the times of yore. But still nothing to be ashamed about. If the definitive authority doesn't correct it, then it ain't wrong.

Of course, I respect each player playing by his/her beliefs, as much as I respect Lightwielder's (or better said, John Ardin's) self-imposed gameplay limitations. I just don't consider myself affected my them.

Let's wait for the release of the Oakenking before beating up this dead horse more, please.

[spencer]

I just would like to add one more thing....

OK, no I wouldn't, I was just funnin' ya

[demojan777]

I firmly believe the only limits to the player's behaviors should be the rules of the game. If you can do it in-game, without resorting to exploits, then it is legit. I would even go as far as to admit defining "wrongdoing" as doing something that is later corrected by the GM, such as exploiting Thaoni's unexpected lack of limitation in the times of yore. But still nothing to be ashamed about. If the definitive authority doesn't correct it, then it ain't wrong.

Of course, I respect each player playing by his/her beliefs, as much as I respect Lightwielder's (or better said, John Ardin's) self-imposed gameplay limitations. I just don't consider myself affected my them.

Let's wait for the release of the Oakenking before beating up this dead horse more, please.

+1

Even jumping in at the end if that's when I notice the battle is happening and putting everything I have into landing the KB only works about 20% of the time, most of the time someone else gets it instead, so I don't subscribe to any type of self-abuse regarding multi-player battles. Since it's a RPG and I'm role-playing, Rundum is an opportunist and will take whatever opportunity presents itself, even if that means running in to get a KB at the last minute.

[texlaw1992]

I have 4 of 5 active KBs, and went after Ulgror to get the final one.

Nolly walks in at the last minute, uses his BOGs and steals the KB.

I'd negative rep him right now except that he's recently engaged, so I'll simply repeat the familiar Chinese expression:

May you live in interesting times.

[Badstench]

I just spent the better part of an hour battling against Ulgror at the tar pits largely on my own... satisfaction was achieved with the killing blow (not surprising seeing as how I was on my own).

Feeling mighty pleased with myself, I went to Talinus to replenish blessings, then checked to see which multiplayer monster was awake for a further beating.

I was surprised to see the only monster awake was Ulgror. He was up and running immediately.

I wondered if the adventure finder hadn't managed to update after I'd killed him, so I went to check... sure enough, he was waiting for more punishment.

"That's odd!" I thought, and smacked him around a few more times before realizing I was bored with him.

I'm off to try and whittle Mrcrowley's domination of the Ogre Lords back a bit!

[demojan777]

I just spent the better part of an hour battling against Ulgror at the tar pits largely on my own... satisfaction was achieved with the killing blow (not surprising seeing as how I was on my own).

Feeling mighty pleased with myself, I went to Talinus to replenish blessings, then checked to see which multiplayer monster was awake for a further beating.

I was surprised to see the only monster awake was Ulgror. He was up and running immediately.

I wondered if the adventure finder hadn't managed to update after I'd killed him, so I went to check... sure enough, he was waiting for more punishment.

"That's odd!" I thought, and smacked him around a few more times before realizing I was bored with him.

I'm off to try and whittle Mrcrowley's domination of the Ogre Lords back a bit!

DEJINX

Hopefully the frequency of encounters with Ulgror has been increased, as I have fought the thing 3 times and only got 5 blobs of tar so far (you would think those would be easier to get; they're almost as elusive as the onyx bands you almost never get when you fight the big demon to restore power to the Finger of Dread).

[DonMoody]

POST-SUBMISSION ADDED COMMENT:
Perhaps my mind is getting mushy but I do not remember starting this thread.
Is this another example of Sryth's interrupted timeline (ala The Chasm of Time)?

This stealing the KB with BoG hits is getting old. Notice the pattern? Most adventurers do the honorable thing and discharge their BoG upon entry. Lady Jemia comes to mind as well as a few others. Unfortunately, there are those who are content to let others do the heavy lifting, then come in at the last minute and take what they have no right to take.

This has been a topic of discussion on the Sryth forum(s) long before I ever heard of Sryth.

There are a variety of views on this topic - some of which I have quoted at the end of this post.

In brief, here is my view:
http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=44064&postcount=299
http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=44100&postcount=302
http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=44136&postcount=303

In more detail:
I have participated in many, many MPs.
Sometimes I get the KB, sometimes I do the most damage yet someone else achieves the KB, sometimes something else.
My general mode of playing Sryth is to have a window open on whatever machine I am currently using and play as time permits.
As the mood strikes me, at any given moment I will be doing a unique adventure, a repeatable adventure, or an MP.
I am often (though not always) doing some other task whenever I am playing Sryth.
When RL pulls me away, I [eventually] return, finish whatever Sryth task I was doing then look to see what's next.
One time, while at work, I was in an MP engagement then got [literally] pulled away from the machine, only to return a few/many minutes later.
Despite the fact that when I started that [interrupted] engagement, the beastie was at ~80%, when I came back and finished the engagement, I achieved the KB.
That stuff happens.
I never lurk, waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting then try and get the KB.
When I enter an MP, I just do the 'beat down' as best I can, usually regardless of any other factors.
I have done the heavy lifting and someone else has gotten the KB; I have gotten the KB when others have done most of the work.
Initially, I'd use the BoG right off, each time it recharged, attempting to get the highest damage total *and* also try to break my 'total damage for a single engagement' record (which currently stands at 9,275 points of damage - which is the highest total I have ever seen or heard of; 9K club anyone?).
Now I just try and do the beat down as best I can.

There are many MPs everyday.
Except during the wee hours of the (server time) day, it is rare for me to not see an MP active and available for participation.

DonMoody

I firmly believe the only limits to the player's behaviors should be the rules of the game. If you can do it in-game, without resorting to exploits, then it is legit. I would even go as far as to admit defining "wrongdoing" as doing something that is later corrected by the GM, such as exploiting Thaoni's unexpected lack of limitation in the times of yore. But still nothing to be ashamed about. If the definitive authority doesn't correct it, then it ain't wrong.

Of course, I respect each player playing by his/her beliefs, as much as I respect Lightwielder's (or better said, John Ardin's) self-imposed gameplay limitations. I just don't consider myself affected my them.

Let's wait for the release of the Oakenking before beating up this dead horse more, please.

My personal thoughts . . .

1. If it bothers you that much to be "Kill Stolen From" (?), don't mess with MPs! I have fought dozens of MPs, and I am still joyfully surprised when I land the KB. As my momma said, "If Joey makes you unhappy, don't hang out with Joey"

2. What is the big deal about getting the KB? Is it just the XP? Cause there are much more profitable XP grinding spots that the MP battles. In the 40 ish minutes that an avg short MP battle goes, I can run Tarn, Axepath, and possibly Yir-Tanon, which all give guaranteed AS&P rewards, plus you get loot, potentially more Battle Markers . . .

3. If the GM had thought that it was a big deal to make sure that the top workers got the KB, he could have put in a check saying that you had to do X amount of damage to be able to get the KB, or he would have made the reward for the person that dealt the most damage. He also probably would have made it so the BOG doesn't make it so easy to walk in and get the KB.

All that being said, I understand how this can frustrate people, so I'm not trying to knock your frustration. I'm just throwing out my personal thoughts. Who knows, maybe with the MP updates, KB rewards will be done away with, and a AS&P reward will go to everyone based on damage dealt.


I have a problem with the term "stealing." I don't remember how I felt about it a couple of years ago; but today, my feeling is that anyone joining an MP at anytime and utilizing all legal game tools in his/her participation is not stealing anything from anyone. He/she is simply playing the game as designed by the GM.


In brief, people playing the game without cheating are not thieves. If there are complaints, fire away at the GM.

Finally, the GM has promised to develop/upgrade/fix MP's. We'll wait and see if these include fixes to the perceived KB theft!


I agree that there's no cut and dry definition of "kill-stealing." To be honest, it used to bother me more, but I don't really mind so much anymore. The battles go by so quickly, it just doesn't really matter if somebody else gets the killing blow. It used to be more annoying when you could spend 30 minutes or more hacking away (sometimes solo) against an MP boss when you could have accomplished more through a full grinding circuit in that same amount of time.


I know this argument is old already, but just wanted to weigh in with those who dislike kill stealing. My issue isn't so much that people come in late. For all I know, they just logged on and saw there was an MP going. But when they see the enemy is near death and then use combat items, it's really annoying. If I see that the same person has been working on a boss, or if I come in late, I just use Aggressive attacks. Sometimes, I don't even join in and just go to another MP or wait till the next fight.

Like Dooli, if I'm for some reason doing an MP by myself, I would welcome help. I don't like MPs much so don't play them often, but it doesn't mean I haven't been in a situation where my friends and I were working on a boss and then some "lurker" who came intermittently took the kill. And yes, when you start noticing the same names, inwardly, it's like, "Oh, no. Grrrr."

If I look at the leader board and see that the person who got the KB came in later in the fight but still scored something like 10,000 damage, I don't feel as bad. But if it's 5,000 or less, I immediately think the worst.

This also goes back to our discussion about the gems being aids to greater damage in the fight, rather than something that gets used at the end and you run the risk of the damage not counting. I tend to use combat items when the boss still has lots of health left so I can be sure every point counts.

My two cents.


A few days ago, I popped in and saw a boss at about 2%; and slammed him with my BOGs! 6K+ damage done, KB achieved, and all the damage counted in the final tally.

There are at least 28 MP's a day, which translates into about 200 MP's a week. On average, I have a shot at getting the killing blow 3-5 times a week. That leaves 195-197 KB's. So, in those 3-5 times, I won't shy from using my arsenal of weapons to get the KB if I want it.

Some players refrain from entering the final stretch if they arrive too late; or if one is doing a "solo MP" (BTW that's an oxymoron). That might seem as the "noble" thing to do; but it is unfair to try and hold everyone to that standard.


An important thing to consider is to differentiate between a player who logs in and goes to the MP and participates regardless of the "moral" situation, and a player who lurks while people do the hard work before he/she jumps in towards the end to take a chance at the KB. Elrohir is openly of the first category; but not the second. I've never lurked and waited for the hard work to be done before snatching a KB.


The overriding view is that KB "theft" is bad. So, my inclination is to say that my view is different; and yours is popular status quo.


I have 4 of 5 active KBs, and went after Ulgror to get the final one.

Nolly walks in at the last minute, uses his BOGs and steals the KB.

I'd negative rep him right now except that he's recently engaged, so I'll simply repeat the familiar Chinese expression:

May you live in interesting times.


I used to try and refrain from getting the KB if I had not been there very long. I just gave up. Too many other people were flitting in at the last minute and getting the KB. The only restriction I have on myself currently is that I try not to use the BOG to get the KB. Otherwise, all bets are off, as far as I am concerned. There are a few select players for whom I will leave if I see they have been there awhile and I have not.

[thingirl]

OK, I agree. This BOG KB'ing is getting old fast.

The Greater Demon Xarakk is no more. The greater demon was valiantly engaged by a brave band of Sryth's most illustrious heroes in a brutal battle that lasted 0 hour(s) and 11 minute(s).

It was ultimately the illustrious adventurer, Beth Draedon (donmoody), who brought down Xarakk.

Wielding her trusted weapon (Bloodrune Trident), the valiant Beth Draedon ended the menace of Xarakk by dealing out a total of 4280 point(s) of damage in her final engagement with the greater demon.

Here are the names of some of the bravest adventurers who stood against Xarakk, and the damage they scored against the greater demon...

Adventurer Damage
1. John Ardin (lightwielder) 11,951
2. Alanne (thinman) 9,578
3. Lady Jemia (summermoon2) 7,284
4. Beth Draedon (donmoody) 5,172
5. Rkngl (darkrkngl) 3,123
6. Radegunde (lydi) 2,071
7. Wega Dart (tigerboy) 1,577

[Blix]

Thingirl,
I noticed that in another MP, you and Spencer discharged your BoGs upon entry. Respect to you both for that.

In the example you cited, notice how the Bog damage does not match the total damage inflicted. This means that there was at least one round where the BoG could have been discharged, but the BoG strike was held back until it was done at a time to secure the KB. This puts the lie in the previous argument that KB stealing was unintentional and a matter of random events.

I commend you on your gameplay, as you and others have been examples to me in the past and will be in the future, no doubt.

[DonMoody]

This puts the lie in the previous argument that KB stealing was unintentional and a matter of random events.

I am unsure what argument you are referring to.
Certainly your comment is not an accurate reflection of any comment I have posted nor any argument I have ever made.
If it was somehow intended to be representative of some part of what I've posted, it is at best a rather poor and inaccurate paraphrasing that lost the intention of what was actually written - might I suggest that instead of paraphrasing, the quoting of the full text of what to what you refer might be a superior practice?
That way no one will be in doubt and all can judge the actual words for themselves.

FTR, the demon was at 11% when I started the engagement that resulted in his demise.
The BoG blast brought him down to single digits but *not* down to 1%.
So there was some fight in the old fiend even after the BoG.
And it looks like there was more than a handful of other in the fight.

DonMoody

P.S. The phrase "puts the lie" is readily seen as inflammatory - especially when it is based upon a misrepresentation of what was actually stated.

FTR, here is what the most relevant comment of what I actually posted:

When I enter an MP, I just do the 'beat down' as best I can, usually regardless of any other factors.
...
Initially, I'd use the BoG right off, each time it recharged, attempting to get the highest damage total *and* also try to break my 'total damage for a single engagement' record (which currently stands at 9,275 points of damage - which is the highest total I have ever seen or heard of; 9K club anyone?).
Now I just try and do the beat down as best I can.

And, of course, as readily shown by the content, "Initially, I'd use the BoG right off, ..." clearly refers to the time frame when the BoG was initially acquired, not to each and every time the BoG is initially used (which would be rather awkward phrasing, since the BoG has a 60+ minute recharge time between uses).
I am open to suggestions as to how the wording "do the beat down as best I can" could be made clearer.
It seems crystal to me (but then, I wrote it).

I would also like to mention that I am on record as having 'swept' the MPs three times.
Which is an accomplishment that *cannot* be achieved by repeatedly doing what it appears to be is being accused here.

[Blix]

The numbers don't lie. You could have used the BoG in the round previous, but chose not to.

The same goes for the battle cited in post number 706.

And no need to reprint an entire exhaustive post, with results that obvious.

I'm not trying to single you out, as there are others who play the same way. I'm just wondering if you understand the frustration you and others cause, and if you really want to be that guy.

It's not that hard to refrain from using the BoG at the last moment, or to leave a battle that you entered late, giving others that worked so hard a little respect for their effort.

That's all I'm trying to say. I apologize if I came across as unreasonable, or as if this was some sort of personal crusade against you.

[DonMoody]

I'm just wondering if you understand the frustration you and others cause, and if you really want to be that guy.

I think jimyred said it best:

If it bothers you that much to be "Kill Stolen From" (?), don't mess with MPs! I have fought dozens of MPs, and I am still joyfully surprised when I land the KB. As my momma said, "If <the MP> makes you unhappy, don't hang out <in the MP>"

I play Sryth for fun.
And no, I don't get fun out of annoying or frustrating others.
When Sryth frustrates me (which it has - although the change to Restoration is the only item I can think of which really t'ed me off), I take a break from it - I don't need to be frustrated in the past times I partake in for enjoyment.

If is solely XP you are looking for, it has also been previously stated that there are more profitable XP grinding spots that the MP battles.

I have slogged away at an MP, done more damage than all other combatants combined and 'lost' what I considered I 'deserved'.
Of course, both 'lost' and 'deserved' were my personal, subjective take on the issue.
Neither could be said to be definitive PoVs.

I firmly believe the only limits to the player's behaviors should be the rules of the game. If you can do it in-game, without resorting to exploits, then it is legit. I would even go as far as to admit defining "wrongdoing" as doing something that is later corrected by the GM, such as exploiting Thaoni's unexpected lack of limitation in the times of yore. But still nothing to be ashamed about. If the definitive authority doesn't correct it, then it ain't wrong.

Opinions vary.
The opinion above seems to me to be that the GM knew what he set up and if the creator of 'Sryth-world' thinks it is an issue, it will be changed.
To date, it is unchanged.

I have previously been more irked about such occurrences.
Yet after more than a year of fighting in MPs, I no longer get worked up over what happens in any of them.

DonMoody

[DonMoody]

This stealing the KB with BoG hits is getting old.
Notice the pattern?
Most adventurers do the honorable thing and discharge their BoG upon entry.
Lady Jemia comes to mind as well as a few others.
Unfortunately, there are those who are content to let others do the heavy lifting, then come in at the last minute and take what they have no right to take.

There are universal truths which are held to be self evident.
Yet the more I rethink this recent discussion, the more I think the above perspective is off (at least the use of the phrase "the honorable thing" strikes me one projecting a non-universal beliefs onto others).

I respect each player playing by his/her beliefs.
Yet the above strikes me as trying to claim there is one 'right' or 'correct' belief system and any other is 'wrong'.

On one side, we have 'no KB should *ever* be achieved with a BOG'.
Here is a different and at least as equally valid PoV:
Every KB should be a Black Octagonal Gem attack.

Tell me - why is one superior to the other?

My argument that the latter is clearly superior:
There are hundreds of adventures with the Black gems.
The beasties have been a bane on Sryth for as long as most can remember.
AND these gigantic beasts seem to be more prevalent (and resilient!) than ever.
In this war with these beasts, they need to be put down as quickly and as diligently as possible - they are giving no quarter, we can neither afford to ask for any nor provide any.

Every KB should be a BoG attack.
The Redwolf of Sageholt approaches - let the slaying begin!

DonMoody

"Winning Is War's Only Honourable End."
"Without victory, there is no honour."
"In war, there is nothing more honourable than victory."

[scout1idf]

I really dislike the "bounce back" after using the BoG.

I knocked Talderus Redborn down to 70% before being forced to retreat, came back and he was sitting at 75%.

Fighting in a group, it wouldn't be a big deal but I was alone!

I wish the GM would take that "bounce back" out!!

[spencer]

Good job by all on the ending of this menace!

DonMoody

Yep, you BOGed me yesterday, so I had to BOG you back today :)

[DonMoody]

Yep, you BOGed me yesterday, so I had to BOG you back today :)

I have attacked many beasts with the Black Octagonla Gem; yet I never remember attacking you (unless you are Ildraria in disguise ...).
Yet killing off one of these foul beasts with a BOG attack is just as it should be.

There I was fighting the beast wondering:
"Will this never end? It is at single digits already! If I hadn't too recently used my BOG for taking out the tar spirit, this werewolf would be toast. Where are all the illustrious adventurers?'
and then it was (finally!) over.
And properly ended, too!

Every KB should be a Black Octagonal Gem attack.

Well done, sir. Well done indeed!

DonMoody

[Doolipalally]

Every KB should be a Black Octagonal Gem attack.


Um, does that mean characters who aren't sufficiently advanced to have a BOG yet 'shouldn't' be getting the KB? :confused:

[DonMoody]

Every KB should be a Black Octagonal Gem attack.

Um, does that mean characters who aren't sufficiently advanced to have a BOG yet 'shouldn't' be getting the KB? :confused:

For better or worse (depending upon your PoV), we do not live in a perfect world.
In one variation of a perfect world, every KB would be the result of a Black Octagonal Gem attack.

DonMoody

[Meduwyn]

I really dislike the "bounce back" after using the BoG.

I knocked Talderus Redborn down to 70% before being forced to retreat, came back and he was sitting at 75%.

Fighting in a group, it wouldn't be a big deal but I was alone!

I wish the GM would take that "bounce back" out!!

Agreed. Since MPs are the only place we can use our BOGs, it feels disappointing to not get the 'full effect', especially during solo battles. It's probably meant to keep the MPs from being over too quickly for everyone to get a chance. But it seems like the big issue on the forum is people feeling cheated when they 'lose' the KB to a single BOG hit.

I think it would be better if people just couldn't use BOGs at all once the MP got down to a set percentage...say 10%, but otherwise could just 'nuke' away :D

[Oldschool]

One downside to consider re: BOG'ing for the KB is if you use it and don't get the KB all that damage which correlates to xp is lost.

[spencer]

Which is just as it should be.

There I was fighting the beast wondering:
"Will this never end? It is at single digits already! If I hadn't too recently used my BOG for taking out the tar spirit, this werewolf would be toast. Where are all the illustrious adventurers?'
and then it was (finally!) over.
And properly ended, too!

Every KB should be a Black Octagonal Gem attack.

Well done, sir. Well done indeed!

DonMoody

Thanks, DonMoody, but I really don't like to use the BOG to get the KB. I think it is too much of an unfair advantage. Having said that, I will use it if I am with other people that I know will use it as well. I will not condemn anyone for using it, but I won't commend them, either. If someone uses it to ensure that they get the KB, after they have done the Lion's share of the damage, then I think that is not an unfair advantage. Anyway, this debate will continue to rage until (if and when) the GM decides to change it.

[scout1idf]

....I think it would be better if people just couldn't use BOGs at all once the MP got down to a set percentage...say 10%, but otherwise could just 'nuke' away :D
Wonderful idea.

I would suggest 30%, especially for The Ruins of Tarramyre. I hate going after the onyx bands and it ends to quickly.

For some reason, that is the one MP I can rarely catch anymore.

[DonMoody]

Thanks, DonMoody, but I really don't like to use the BOG to get the KB.

Fair enough but until the GM indicates otherwise, it seems pretty clear that the primary purpose of the Black Octagonal Gems is MP killing.
(As such, I am unsure why anyone would balk at using the [virtual, in game] object for its [apparent] intended [virtual, in game] purpose.)

I did not believe anyone was disputing that the primary purpose of the Black Octagonal Gems is MP killing.
Yet now I wonder if not perhaps there are some that do dispute that.
After all, there seems to be varying opions about what 'should' or 'should not' be done with various Sryth items (in general, it is better to avoid using such definitives as 'should', 'should not', 'always', 'never', ...) yet we see them frequently in such discussions).

IMO, most of these 'this is how it should be done' seem unfounded (where 'founded' is defined as 'there are clear, unequivocal indications from the GM as to what he expects'; e.g. such as he did with scripting).


I think it is too much of an unfair advantage.

These are beasts that plague us all - 'fair' and 'unfair' hold no sway with their ilk.
And we can ill afford to think in such terms when we engage them - that way lies defeat!
Do not lose heart!
Yes, some of our arsenal is mighty, not for the timid.
Yet we the strong, stalwart defenders of Sryth must use every available tool at our disposal.
Even those that, were we on a tournament field, no true knight would use.
But we are not at play here - we are on a field of battle, defending Sryth from this seemingly evergrowing menace!
Do not shy away from doing what we must!
Even our most learned sages can see no end to these foul beings (and, in whispers, behind closed doors, one can - shudder - hear rumours that even more loom on the horizon ...).
Be strong of mind, strong of goal - and give them no quarter!

DonMoody

[scout1idf]

Scout uses his in "his" first couple of rounds to prevent the loss of damage if the battle would end without making the killing blow (if the baddie is under 10% when he joins the battle, I will quickly decide if I want to risk it or not). I feel that it is a waste of a great power if that would occur.

Besides, I (Scout) fight in so few MP's anymore (because of RL timing issues) I want the most bang for my buck (time). That's where the real waste of using it in the end and missing the KB comes to play for me/him.

Just my 2 cents.....

[Doolipalally]

[OT: it may be time to move these posts!]

No-one's saying that BOGs should not be used in MPs, and I agree that that would appear to be their intended purpose.

The question is whether it's better to use them at an earlier stage in the battle, to help speed things along, or to save them to try and get the KB.

My personal view is that I would rather use it earlier, for two reasons:

a) Like OS and Scout above, I prefer if it's guaranteed that the damage the BOG causes will be added to my total. If I hold back till the end, the BOG damage might end up occurring after the KB and therefore not count. I'd rather have guaranteed damage earlier on than a possibility of the KB.

b) I'm happier if the chance at the KB is open to everyone, whether or not they have a BOG. That is my personal preference, which I am not attempting to be evangelical about.

I can't really relate to the role-playing view about saving Tysa from the evil beasties, I'm afraid, since whether or not we kill them has absolutely nothing to do with BOGs, and anyway, there's always another one along in a minute...

[scout1idf]

{OT: I put in a request to Oldschool by PM to move this debate elsewhere}

[Doolipalally]

Thanks, Scout. Was about to do the same thing!

[Oldschool]

Moved along with some BOG/KB posts from another mp thread.

[spencer]

Fair enough but until the GM indicates otherwise, it seems pretty clear that the primary purpose of the Black Octagonal Gems is MP killing.
(As such, I am unsure why anyone would balk at using the [virtual, in game] object for its [apparent] intended [virtual, in game] purpose.)

I did not believe anyone was disputing that the primary purpose of the Black Octagonal Gems is MP killing.
Yet now I wonder if not perhaps there are some that do dispute that.
After all, there seems to be varying opions about what 'should' or 'should not' be done with various Sryth items (in general, it is better to avoid using such definitives as 'should', 'should not', 'always', 'never', ...) yet we see them frequently in such discussions).

IMO, most of these 'this is how it should be done' seem unfounded (where 'founded' is defined as 'there are clear, unequivocal indications from the GM as to what he expects'; e.g. such as he did with scripting).




These are beasts that plague us all - 'fair' and 'unfair' hold no sway with their ilk.
And we can ill afford to think in such terms when we engage them - that way lies defeat!
Do not lose heart!
Yes, some of our arsenal is mighty, not for the timid.
Yet we the strong, stalwart defenders of Sryth must use every available tool at our disposal.
Even those that, were we on a tournament field, no true knight would use.
But we are not at play here - we are on a field of battle, defending Sryth from this seemingly evergrowing menace!
Do not shy away from doing what we must!
Even our most learned sages can see no end to these foul beings (and, in whispers, behind closed doors, one can - shudder - hear rumours that even more loom on the horizon ...).
Be strong of mind, strong of goal - and give them no quarter!

DonMoody

You thought I meant unfair to the beasts??!!!! Eh, no!! I meant unfair to other players who spend a lot of time doing the damage necessary to get the baddies ini killing range.

[ksuhart]

Well, unless I am wrong:confused:, your MP experience is based on how much damage you cause during the battle. The KB is nice, but I'll take the 2k+ experience for dealing the most damage all day long.

I always BOG the beastie upon entering the conflict with the intention of dealing the most recordable damage possible.

Just one man's humble opinion...:)



***Edit***
Yes, Steven has had multiple KB's "stolen", but he usually eases the pain by smiling all the way to the bank with the 2400 exp...

[DonMoody]

That is my personal preference, which I am not attempting to be evangelical about.

It seems, to me, that some see a 'self-evident, universal truth' in what would, objectively, be best described as "personal preference".

Good use of the word "evangelical".

DonMoody

[Oldschool]

POST-SUBMISSION ADDED COMMENT:
Perhaps my mind is getting mushy but I do not remember starting this thread.
Is this another example of Sryth's interrupted timeline (ala The Chasm of Time)?


Not exactly.......

Moved along with some BOG/KB posts from another mp thread.

Moved/merged threads list chronologically and one of yours just happened to be first in the batch. Granted that it's subjective in regards to what gets moved and what doesn't. I try to move stuff so both the thread that stuff is moved from and the new or merged thread(s) maintain some semblance of continuity - not always possible. Although I made mention of it via the quoted post above I could/should have given a more detailed explanation - sorry for any confusion.


Just read the above back and I could/should have given a more detailed explanation made even me shudder. ;)

[DonMoody]

Thanks for the info.

I just saw the post which says the thread was 'adjusted' was #19, towards the bottom of the second page.

This topic has been discussed in both the
"Kill Stealing and Killing Blows"
and
"Universal multiplayer issues"
threads.

Were neither of those acceptable destinations?
Or is there other criteria (that I am unaware of) for where to relocate posts to?

Thanks again,

DonMoody

[Oldschool]

They are in fact that's where they are now - apologies for not doing it earlier but r/l beckoned in the middle of my modding. I thought to do that but I also thought to put all the non BOG KB posts in the already existing KB thread and the KB/BOG posts in a new one the newly created and now merged one. :rolleyes:

The truth is once I started thinking about sifting through this thread (300+ posts existed in this thread prior to the merging) and others since there are other KB related posts in the other mp threads and elsewhere I decided that was biting off more than I want to chew. Even more so, since the chronological listing creates continuity concerns for both the merged from and merged to threads.

[DonMoody]

They are in fact that's where they are now - apologies for not doing it earlier but r/l beckoned in the middle of my modding. I thought to do that but I also thought to put all the non BOG KB posts in the already existing KB thread and the KB/BOG posts in a new one the newly created and now merged one. :rolleyes:

The truth is once I started thinking about sifting through this thread (300+ posts existed in this thread prior to the merging) and others since there are other KB related posts in the other mp threads and elsewhere I decided that was biting off more than I want to chew. Even more so, since the chronological listing creates continuity concerns for both the merged from and merged to threads.

I would like to thank you and all the other moderators/administrators of the forum.
This is a very civil, well organized place.
That it is so is, in part, because of the efforts of individuals like yourself.

Another thank you to all the forum participants.
The quality of the forum participants makes the signal to noise ratio here virtually unparalleled in the 'net world - it is simply amazing as it is.

Thank you.

DonMoody

[Oldschool]

You're welcome. Back atcha and a big ole ditto to what you said about our community. The civility and respectfulness of our "forum family" makes it an enjoyable place.

[DonMoody]

A near sweep! (the five different MPs all a row but not all MPs quiet as of completion of the fifth and currently on record as achieving the KB in all five!)

Please see this post (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49049&postcount=348).
And please see this post (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49054&postcount=715), too.
Finally, please see this post (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49055&postcount=654).
And this one (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49058&postcount=880) too please.
And a fifth one (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49068&postcount=647) also please.
And Ulgror again (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49069&postcount=349) for the sweep!

To achieve the first, second, fourth and sixth of the above killing blows, I did not use a BOG attack.

In those two three cases, I did, however, use all of these (in, IMO, reverse order of importance):
- three QS 20s
- Finger Of Dread attack
- Wand Of Dragonfire attack
- expert timing

A comment on that last item.
Once the (##%) gets to 30% or lower, I watch the pace of decline.
I have found it is fairly easy to track the rate an which the beast is going down and make a reasonable, fairly solid prediction of just about when it will hit ~2%.
This will often be *during* an engagement I am in (that's correct, I never purposely delay beginning an engagement when using this method).
While in that 'final engagement', I carefully judge how quickly I am attacking and when I figure the time is about right I:
- attack using all the stored QS 20s then
- make an attack with the Finger Of Dread then
- make an attack with the Wand Of Dragonfire then
- machine gun Aggressive attacks until I am forced to retreat

In MP sessions with multiple players active at the demise, the above method has gotten me more KBs than all the BOG attacks combined.
This is also the method I have used to successfully sweep the MPs 3 times (not sure if that is a record but I may have been the first to post a sweep of the 5 different MPs though since then others have posted their own 5 MP sweep accomplishments).

Yes, achieving a sweep often will require more than no luck but more so than relying on the [long recharge time] BOG, the above detailed timing combined with a[n easy to get] prepared arsenal of big damage attacks is what gets (me at least) the KBs needed to successfully pull off a sweep.
Besides the 3 actual times, I have also come close a few times (RL or bad luck being what prevented success those times), always using the above method.


I am curious for opinions on the above.
Especially from those who think using a BOG attack to achieve a KB is an 'unfair' advantage.
Just like the BOG, not everyone has a FoD, WoDF, QS - is using them to help achieve a 'fair'? 'unfair'? neither? both? some other descriptor?
Is using the 'expert timing' trick I detailed above 'fair'? 'unfair'? ...

To me, it seems that all that is being done is using the tools to accomplish a specific goal (achieve KBs).
Which, as of the pumpkin KB linked to above, I have 3 MPs in a row with Talderas active and with Ildraria coming on-line [I]before any of the current KBs would expire.
If RL wasn't calling me elsewhere, I'd head over to Sageholt and make a try for a 4th sweep. Got a call and my dinner/evening was delayed so I did head over to Sageholt. With only one other participant, the timing aspect was less complex and I got my 4th MP in a row (FWIW, when I am going for a KB and there is only one other active participant at the deminse, barring a BOG attack, I find the success rate of the timing method is in the 80-90+% range).
Only one more MP to go for another sweep ...
Yet Ildraria is a bit less than an hour from being active - by which time I will be out and about; though I will have my internet-capable phone with me so you never know ....

UPDATE: Got Ildraria (with a BOG blast) but Ulgor came active while fighting the dragon.
So 5 in a row but not simultaneously 'on record' as "the illustrious adventurer" because one of the MPs (Ulgror) is active.
However, if I can get Ulgror (not sure I'll be able to be around for that ... already getting annoyed looks just typing this ...), it looks like the MPs will be quiet for over an hour (which would be the longest 'on record' I've ever gotten for a sweep).

FINAL UPDATE: Was able to repeat with Ulgror so as to accomplished the sweep - on record (for the next 1 hour and 20-some minutes) as being "the illustrious adventurer" [I]in all 5 MPs!
For that I have to thank Blix (did 16,906 damage) and Radegunde (did 1,452 damage).
For much of the fight, I could tell someone else was also beating on Ulgror.
But towards the end, it definitely looked like the others had moved off and stopped attacking; leaving me all alone to (easily) get the KB and complete the sweep.
Thanks.


And thanks to all for reading and a double thanks for commenting,

DonMoody

[Oldschool]

Pack a lunch folks and maybe even schedule a full grinding circuit and mp "tourney" around this one. :rolleyes: :)

First the simple one - KB strategy. One of the keys (maybe the key) imo is connection speed and system speed which I seem to benefit from as I think mine are pretty fast. I know I noticed a big difference when I was relegated to one of the older systems (laptop went down) and when I got a new laptop I experienced a notable difference over the one that went down which was somewhat of a surprise. Another key and usually more overlooked is character development. Mine all benefit from being current on content so are able to give a good accounting.

The reason I mention these will come into play into the second part of this post re: KBs. Till then I'll move on.

The FoD, WoD, Q20's, etc..... including the BOGs are all acceptable at anytime during the MP imo. There shouldn't be any doubt that the BOGs were engineered with the MPs in mind.

Re: the BOGs specifically. Whether they're meant to be KB trump card of our arsenal, to speed up mps overall (remember length of them has always been an issue but the arrival of the BOGs has squelched most of that chatter) or something else or a combo thereof is anyone's guess. Therefore until their purpose and/or protocol is known imo it's to each his own on how they use 'em.

Now the stickier of the wickets - KB "thievery". Note the quotes as that is a purely subjective term imo - at least for now.

So here's my two cents (again :rolleyes:) on the issue. Hey I'm probably up to an 80 AT bonus subscription already. ;) However, my opinion was evolving somewhat and until recently I was astride the fence. Actually I've been mulling over whether to post or not so I'll take the above post as a "sign" to do so.

First my personal opinion on the KB remains pretty much the same and unchanged. It's up for grabs even if I start and solo from the beginning until the last round when someone else gets the KB for the only other round in the battle period.

Now I'm not going to blow smoke up anyone's keister and say I don't get a little red cheeked in the posterior when that happens cause I sometimes do but I get over it just as quickly.

Now my personal "protocol" on the KB which contrasts with my opinion. If I don't do what I think is an amount that deserves me a chance at the KB I will not go for it. To me it's a matter of manners. And when I say that I don't think less of anyone who goes for the KB in those situations because like I said I think it's fair game for anyone.

Chance is a word that seems to be forgotten or overlooked in some of the commotion. If someone decides to go for a KB regardless of their "deserving" status they still have only a chance the same as you, me or everyone else. Sure if they've got a faster connection, unspent BOGs, etc... etc... etc... they may have more or less of a chance but it's still a chance.

Whether it's a deserving blow, tactically brilliant blow, lucky blow or conniving blow of unparalleled KB "thievery" it is the chance that was GIVEN and allowed by the mechanics that was TAKEN not stolen. And for various and sundry reasons that chance will either result in the KB being struck or not.

Now back to connection/system speed(s) and character development. Sorry folks it's a bit out of sync but I just remembered to come back to it.

Some players work their guts out on an mp but because of any/all of the above their damage score alone belies that fact. Folks need to keep that in mind sometimes when viewing MP results and remarking on them.

And to further illustrate connection/system speed.... I've seen some high ranked players/characters via the round by round results fare poorly consistently in mps. By fare poorly I mean they'll manage a round (or line of text) on every two or three (sometimes more) separate showings of the round by round results while I or others may be there multiple times in one set of results. I doubt they're all having to heal/restore NR or even multi-tasking to that degree consistently. I know when I was on the other system my results showed similarly.

Where was I......

Now my fence sitting "dilemma" - intentionally in quotes. In quotes because dilemma is too strong a word as this is still just a game folks. As I've said more than once.... a damn fine one but still just a game.

Anyhoo I really don't get too wound about about who and under what circumstances folks get the KB. However what had been frosting the ole progenitors ;) of late was when I would withdraw from an mp because I didn't think I "deserved" it then someone with less time would come in and score the KB.

Should I say what the hell and go for it - after all if I don't they will so what the heck. After thinking about it - no. In my opinion that smacks of situational ethics. If I'm going to go for it then go for it for the sake of going for it and man up and take the heat if it comes.

Then I thought I'm not withdrawing because I'm going to go for the KB and hopefully I'll get it - let's see how they feel about being one-upped aka revenge. Then I thought about it and what good would that do. Most folks that are going for KBs regardless probably aren't going to get miffed especially if they haven't put a large amount of time in the battle. Plus what revenge and who am I to classify it as such and even more who am I to exact it. If I felt personally peeved or affronted it would be one thing. If so, call it what it is and don't gussy it up as something else.

So I've pretty much come full circle without actually leaving the circle. While I don't mind who nor under what circumstances someone gets the KB I for personal reasons play my game differently. And I've gotten past being bothered when I pull out for someone(s) who I think put the time in and someone else gets the KB. After all I've "honored" my personal view and that is all that should matter to me.

Does it make me a better participant to be in an mp with - you bet. Does this make me a better, nicer or more chivalrous person....? Hell NO. It's a game. Again, it's a damn fine one, but when all is said and done it's still just a game.

And when the tweaked out mp comes out I'm betting some of this debate will be resolved and owing to human nature I'm also betting some new ones may surface.

[Doolipalally]

So I've pretty much come full circle without actually leaving the circle. While I don't mind who nor under what circumstances someone gets the KB I for personal reasons play my game differently. And I've gotten past being bothered when I pull out for someone(s) who I think put the time in and someone else gets the KB. After all I've "honored" my personal view and that is all that should matter to me.

Does it make me a better participant to be in an mp with - you bet. Does this make me a better, nicer or more chivalrous person....? Hell NO. It's a game. Again, it's a damn fine one, but when all is said and done it's still just a game.


That's more or less where I am - a big thank you for taking the time to say it and say it well!

Don Moody, I'm a little brain-challenged right now so I don't want to comment on your post in detail, but one thing that leapt out at me was that you're prepared to use the FoD to get a KB, which marks you as a truly dedicated MP-follower. Personally, I have many days where I'm just not in the mood for MPs - or don't have the time - and for this reason I avoid using up my FoD, because it might be a while before timing and inclination combine to get me to Tarramyre to replenish it.

[spencer]

I will try to keep this short and sweet. DonMoody, it sounds like you employ a sound strategy in trying to achieve the KB. I, too, will hoard QS 20'S, a FOD or WOD use to help get it. I will also flee at what I consider opportune times near the end to try and get back and have a better chance of getting the KB. I consider all of these moves strategic in nature, and not an advantage. The BOG, otoh, seems to me to bring less strategy into play. It can still be used as a strategic ploy, but it unbalances the playing field because you can get the KB when the baddie is at 8-10%. It is especially galling if that is the only round that the person who got the KB with the BOG is in the fight. I don't recall seeing you, DonMoody, doing that, but, as you have said, you do use the BOG when you can. I am not going to condemn you for it as it is a legal part of the game. I prefer to try and earn the KB a little more, not that I am saying if you use the BOG, you didn't earn it, though again, if that is the only round, then I am saying that you didn't earn it. Anyway, I will continue to deal with it as I have and if it is just you and I jousting for it at the end, I will tip my helm to you if you get it, BOG or no. I fully will expect you to use it as I am sure now that you will expect me to as well. No offense taken, and, I hope, none given.

[DonMoody]

Thanks to all who've read the long posts above and an extra 'Thank You' to those who replied.

Using Spencer's reply as the jumping off point, here is some more food for thought:

DonMoody, it sounds like you employ a sound strategy in trying to achieve the KB. I, too, will hoard QS 20'S, a FOD or WOD use to help get it. I will also flee at what I consider opportune times near the end to try and get back and have a better chance of getting the KB. I consider all of these moves strategic in nature, and not an advantage. The BOG, otoh, seems to me to bring less strategy into play. It can still be used as a strategic ploy, but it unbalances the playing field because you can get the KB when the baddie is at 8-10%.

[Very] Roughly, we have ...

- a stored Quickstone 20 [QS20], comes with a Quickstone (costs 72 ATs & 15K gold) though this power is initially not available and can only be unlocked after completion of "The Shattered Skull" saga, does double digit points of damage, can have up to 3 'stored' 20s, pretty fast and easy to recharge, can be recharged regardless of how many are (or are not) already stored

- the Finger Of Dread [FoD], takes a bit of effort to acquire and some effort to recharge, takes about 40K general XP to fully empower and (when fully empowered) does c.100-200 points of damage*, holds 3 charges with a 'downtime' of 5 minutes between uses of charges, can only be recharged after all 3 charges are used and not resued until all charges are restored

- the Wand Of Dragonfire [WoDF], acquired during "a long, arduous, and worthwhile endeavor ", which does c.100-300 points of damage*, reusable with no specific charges or recharging requirements though there is a 'downtime' of 2 hours between uses

- the Black Octagonal Gem [BOG], takes some effort to acquire, need 3 of these gems (max currently allowed) for the best damage potential, with 3 gems does c.2K-7K ! points of damage*, very limited use outside of MPs, downtime of roughly 60 minutes between allowed uses

* These are rough ranges, observed ranges include amounts less/more than the listed minimum/maximum but the above is a rough 'general' range for the purposes of this discussion.

That's quite a jump (in range of damage) between the first 3 and the last one.
There appears to be a somewhat widely held view (though clearly not a view held by all) that for attempting to achieve the KB, the first three are 'fair' and the last one is 'unfair'.

Now let us get a little hypothetical ...

Suppose (for this discussion) that, overtime, a character can acquire a few additional items, each of which has a long enough recharge time that more than one use per a specific MP is impractical.
We will call these hypothetical items:

- the Swizzle Stick of Doom [SSoD], which does roughly 200-600 points of damage

- Catastrophe Creating Carrot [C3], which does roughly 400-1200 points of damage

- Wing Nut of Wrecking [WNoW], which does roughly 600 - 2000 points of damage

- Flesh Eating Feline Statue [FEFS], which does roughly 800 - 3500 points of damage

Just as every character which participates in an MP may not have access to QS20, FoD, WoDF, and/or BOG, not every character would have access to the SSoD, C3, WNoW or FEFS.

For those who say QS20, FoD and WoDF are 'fair but BOG is unfair, what would your view be on ...
... the SSoD? Fair? or Unfair?
... the C3? Fair? or Unfair?
... the WNoW? Fair? or Unfair?
... the FEFS? Fair? or Unfair?


I understand that, currently, there is a 'big gap' between what the FoD or the WoDF can do and what the BOG can do - the most from either of the former is still quite a bit less then the least from the latter.
So that makes it easy for some to draw a 'fair/unfair' line between those items.
But what happens once there are more items?
With less of a gap (and in fact, much overlap) between what damage 'this item' can do vs what damage 'that item' can do, what then?
What is 'fair' and what is 'unfair'?

For those who draw that 'fair/unfair' line, on which side of that line does each of the above hypothetical items fall?
In other words, when used to go for a KB, which of these hypothetical items would be considered as a ‘strategic ploy’ and which would be viewed as ‘unbalancing’?

Thanks again for reading (and a double thanks for commenting),

DonMoody

[Ankhmahor]

My two cents.

Because of situations like THIS (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49187&postcount=648) I tend to keep the BoG for the KB.

Generally speaking I try to follow the general trend and leave the KB to whomever deserves it. Still I have my fair share of missteps. :o

True, it is laudable to get the prized KB with your own two hands, SSX, Goraptor, beak, etc... but it is not that much reliable and usually don't have the time or the patience to be bothered.
*sigh*... I need a long vacation to finish all the games I started! :D

Another thought. em... hey its only a game!
And yet another... buuuut I just lost half an hour of my life (that can end tonight, when I slip in the bathroom and split my skull...) battering at a beastie and then lo and behold! Someone else got the cherry on the top! So sad! :(
Third thought... too much thinking is bad for ya! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBbEB2mI2sQ)

P.S. I also agree with OS about the KB: "... I think it's fair game for anyone. " Seems to me the MPs are created with the idea that the KB should be trickier to get.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P.P.S
More thoughts after this (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49242&postcount=718).

If memory serves I have BOG-ed a beast, reduced it to 0 and still someone else got the KB. So even the BOG isn't 100% reliable.

My general strategy for the MPs is use the BOG take a swing or five and go away to Tarn or my bed. If I have the time I start battering at the beast from the beginning/middle and then BOG it at the end. Seems fine to my moral standards. :D

But... see here. I find the better part of the entire discussion pointless since, in my view, it appears to be a largely academic ethical analysis of the actions of a couple of players in a game that has no rules at all. Save for the scripts of course. It was good to find a few sound ideas how to grab the KB in this thread though. :rolleyes: And that's as far as we can take it. And a few reputation changes... ;)

I have to admit not mater how much I rage about someone stealing my KB, could it really be called stealing if the Lawmaking Body of the Game did not make the KB a property of the Player who did Top Damage? Oh, I would be miffed, no doubt about it. I'm petty like that. :D But come on its just a game! In which we invest money and lifetime... :p


One more thing. How many of you managed to land a killing blow on a Great Wyrm of Many Colours with your very own beak? Think Angband, Moria and if that doesn't ring a bell - NetHack... sigh... those were the days! :cool:

[Oldschool]

I still think the BOGs were put in, at least partly, to renew lagging interest in the mps. Remember when they were first intro'd they were the only source of BMs and during that "inaugural" time we had much shorter mp resets and a few doubling weekends.

And re: lack of mp interest in general. It's easy for me at times to overlook the fact that we have so many more solo replayable opportunities now vs. then. The "newer" ones; Tarn, the Pool of Muck, Sword Island and both Battlegrounds contests give folks a lot lesser amount of idle time - especially if they're as I suspect like most players in that they play in blocks of time.

The BOGs fit real nicely into that type of playing time scheme as well. Run in and do a quick hit and run for some quick xp and possible BMs if an mp is active during a playing session.

[Ankhmahor]

And I so saw THIS (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49252&postcount=358)coming. :rolleyes:

IMHO: any weapon is fair if it is in the game.
Nuff said!

[DonMoody]

I thought there were those that had strong opinions on this topic.
Yet it seems there hav ebeen very few comments.
Perhaps those views weren't as strong as I perceived them to be?
Perhaps those views have been retracted?
Perhaps it was just that the post was too long and 'buried' near the bottom of a page.


In Brief:

[Very] Roughly, we have ...

- a stored Quickstone 20 [QS20] ... does double digit points of damage ...

- the Finger Of Dread [FoD] ... does c.100-200 points of damage* ...

- the Wand Of Dragonfire [WoDF] ... does c.100-300 points of damage* ...

- the Black Octagonal Gem [BOG] ... does c.2K-7K ! points of damage* ...

* These are rough ranges, observed ... [amounts may be higher or lower] ...

There appears to be a somewhat widely held view (though clearly not a view held by all) that for attempting to achieve the KB, the first three are 'fair' and the last one is 'unfair'.

Now let us get a little hypothetical ...

Suppose (for this discussion) that ... [there are other items] ...

We will call these hypothetical items:

- the Swizzle Stick of Doom [SSoD], which does roughly 200-600 points of damage

- Catastrophe Creating Carrot [C3], which does roughly 400-1200 points of damage

- Wing Nut of Wrecking [WNoW], which does roughly 600 - 2000 points of damage

- Flesh Eating Feline Statue [FEFS], which does roughly 800 - 3500 points of damage


For those who say QS20, FoD and WoDF are 'fair' but BOG is 'unfair', what would your view be on ...
... the SSoD? Fair? or Unfair?
... the C3? Fair? or Unfair?
... the WNoW? Fair? or Unfair?
... the FEFS? Fair? or Unfair?

<snip>

For those who draw that 'fair/unfair' line, on which side of that line does each of the above hypothetical items fall?
In other words, when used to go for a KB, which of these hypothetical items would be considered as a ‘strategic ploy’ and which would be viewed as ‘unbalancing’?

Thanks again for reading (and a double thanks for commenting)

Do those who feel the BOG is 'unfair' have any comments?
Or have those 'the BOG is unfair' perceptions changed?

Thanks,

DonMoody

[Doolipalally]

OK, I've now had time to look at this properly, but I don't think I can contribute anything much. Empirical observation has suggested to me that those using the BOG in the closing stages of a battle are more likely to get the killing blow than those not using it. I don't have data about the use of FoD, WoD and QS20s. I also have no way of observing any of your hypothetical weapons in action in a real MP situation, so any mathematical speculation I might do seems to me to be rather a fruitless exercise. My opinions relate to my personal behaviour in an MP only. I'm not trying to set up some canonical 'thou shalts' or 'thou shalt nots', so I'm afraid I'm simply not engaged enough to come at the question from this sort of angle.

I don't know if I'm one of the people you were considering as having strong opinions or not. My feeling is that it's up to me how I choose to approach an MP, others have to work out their own methodology, and deep down, it's really not that important. Yes, I'll express an opinion if there's a debate, because I find the whole thing mildly interesting, but I'm not worked up about the issue enough to pursue it indefinitely.

[DonMoody]

I don't know if I'm one of the people you were considering as having strong opinions or not.

Thanks for commenting.
I wasn't keeping any list.
A moderator/administrator relocated numerous posts from other threads to this "Universal multiplayer issues" thread.
A thread where KB issues have been discussed (in various depths, at various times).

Some of the comments from those relocated threads led me to believe some of the players had strong views (some examples from the comments which led be to think that was the case: "honorable thing", "BOG KB'ing is getting old fast", "stealing", "don't lie", ...).
Yet when provided with some very detailed specifics and asked:
'Where would the fair or unfair line be drawn in these circumstances?'
The main response has been overwhelming silence (despite most, if not all, such forum members posting multiple times in other threads).

So I am left to infer that (despite words which invoke an emotional response and might be viewed, by some, as potentially inflammatory - like 'stealing' and 'lie'), the posters did not, in fact, have any strong view one way or the other.
That is, based upon the evidence, a rather reasonable conclusion to draw seems to be that instead of espousing upon some deeply felt perception, they were instead expressing a very temporary, very short-lived, rather minor disappointment with a quickly forgotten event and that they did, in fact, not hold any stronger, larger, longer term views.

I was mostly looking for confirmation one way or the other.
And was also hoping some of those forum members would comment on exactly where they would draw the fair/unfair line.
But like I stated above, it appears that perhaps they actually do not have a strong view on their (self-proclaimed) fair/unfair dynamic.

DonMoody

[Ankhmahor]

While I may feel bad in the morning I just keelhauled Xarakk and got the KB away from Allanon. I really do not have the time to grind much. So I went NIKE (http://www.elsaelsa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/nike-just-do-it1.jpg) on it.

I just want to reiterate that I personally don't care much. I may curse and rail against the cruel fate if someone gets what I may have seen as mine KB but it will pass in about 15 minutes at the most. I am not big on temper tantrums.

I will recommend the Curse Generator (http://www.btinternet.com/~rpottinger/curse.htm) though! :D

[Meduwyn]

I thought there were those that had strong opinions on this topic.
Yet it seems there hav ebeen very few comments.
Perhaps those views weren't as strong as I perceived them to be?
Perhaps those views have been retracted?
Perhaps it was just that the post was too long and 'buried' near the bottom of a page.


In Brief:



Do those who feel the BOG is 'unfair' have any comments?
Or have those 'the BOG is unfair' perceptions changed?

Thanks,

DonMoody

Okay, I just can't resist putting my 'two cents' in any longer and since you really seem to want to hear honest opinions on the matter, DonMoody (which I think is admirable) I shall oblige. I most definitely DO think intentional use of the BOG to get a KB (in a single round scenario) is 'unfair' in the sense that it runs against the general spirit of the game. It is no mystery that the general atmosphere of Sryth as portrayed on the forum is NOT one of 'every man for himself' - hence the unselfish 'reputation' system and the willingness to share views openly and to offer help freely. I think one can reasonably argue that the concept of going in and seizing a KB with only one round using a BOG and INTENTIONALLY, not accidently, and making a habit of it IS against the Srythian spirit.

I also believe that human nature is such that, when one spends a hugely inordinate amount of time defending a certain position, then one probably deep down inside feels that position to be wrong or at least flawed (the 'doth protest too much' syndrome).

Thirdly, even if one makes the argument that Sryth is a 'just a game' and that only game mecanics apply in questions of playing ethics, then one must still accept other players' indignation if they feel 'wronged'. In other words, okay, say a hypothetical player makes a habit of running around 'stealing' KBs constantly (haven't noticed anyone doing this lately). Said player may have a defensible position from game mecanics standpoint, but can hardly complain if other players criticize him/her for those actions, as it is reasonably to be expected that other players don't want to lost the KB opportunity to a perceived 'KB stealing'.

Whew, that was almost cathartic. Okay, having said all of that, just from looking over the MP battles from the last week or so, I'm not sure it's such an issue these days. The new BOG KB pattern seems to be people who hang in for the whole fight, do massive amounts of damage and then use the BOG, probably because they don't want to risk losing the KB. That is not the scenario that sparked this whole debate in the first place.

Okay, hope that this comes across in the spirit it was intended. :)

:rolleyes:

[DonMoody]

Okay, I just can't resist putting my 'two cents' in any longer and since you really seem to want to hear honest opinions on the matter, DonMoody (which I think is admirable) I shall oblige.

<snip>

Okay, hope that this comes across in the spirit it was intended.

Thank you for commenting.
I, at least, appreciate your input and saw nothing wrong with the 'spirit' of your post.
Though I do believe one could readily make a 'presumes facts not in evidence' argument.

This still has left me wondering if anyone has any specific 'fair/unfair' views on ...

... these hypothetical items:

- the Swizzle Stick of Doom [SSoD], which does roughly 200-600 points of damage

- Catastrophe Creating Carrot [C3], which does roughly 400-1200 points of damage

- Wing Nut of Wrecking [WNoW], which does roughly 600 - 2000 points of damage

- Flesh Eating Feline Statue [FEFS], which does roughly 800 - 3500 points of damage

Especially with regards to where they fall wthin any 'fair/unfair' dynamic amongst these items:

Quickstone 20s, Finger Of Dread, Wand Of Dragonfire, and Black Octagonal Gem.

I would add Wanderer's Bell, Bottle Of Spiced Root Wine and Tallys's Echoing Whisper to that list but:
- those items are consumable and non-renewable
- do any of those even work on the MPs?

[Are there any other limited use, non-renewable items I missed?]

Thanks again for the reply,

DonMoody

[Meduwyn]

This still has left me wondering if anyone has any specific 'fair/unfair' views on ...

... these hypothetical items:

- the Swizzle Stick of Doom [SSoD], which does roughly 200-600 points of damage

- Catastrophe Creating Carrot [C3], which does roughly 400-1200 points of damage

- Wing Nut of Wrecking [WNoW], which does roughly 600 - 2000 points of damage

- Flesh Eating Feline Statue [FEFS], which does roughly 800 - 3500 points of damage

Especially with regards to where they fall wthin any 'fair/unfair' dynamic amongst these items:

Quickstone 20s, Finger Of Dread, Wand Of Dragonfire, and Black Octagonal Gem.

DonMoody

For the sake of discussion, I would consider items 2,3, and 4 of the hypothetical list to be 'unfair' for a last round, immanent KB situation. My reasoning is that those items, when combined with 25 to 37 rounds of combat, potentially deal out more damage than is possible for almost any character not wielding said special items to deal. In other words, given the potential for Battle Rage (which is, of course, uncontrollable), and some really lucky 'devastating (green)' hits, a character could conceivably hit for 1500 up to 2000 in a single round. Therefore, that amount of damage could be considered 'fair'. On that note, I suppose the 'Carrot' could be considered a 'fair' item as it is marginally within the non-item hitting range and one would not expect the maximun damage often.

Of course, this is the kind of thing my characters, hypothetically, would use as personal guidelines, not anything for which they would crusade :p

This is interesting. It seems there is evolving a new ethics philosophy just for Sryth, complete with different schools of thought.

:rolleyes:

[Meduwyn]

(excerpt) In other words, given the potential for Battle Rage (which is, of course, uncontrollable), and some really lucky 'devastating (green)' hits, a character could conceivably hit for 1500 up to 2000 in a single round.

I checked out the 1000 and Up thread and here are the highest 'non-item' single combat results that I've found so far:

No powers or items, just straight slashing, in one round:

2131 against the Pumpkin Beast.

Oddly enough, got 1700 two rounds earlier, which was better than I'd ever previously done.

and

* < 1 minute ago ... Alanne, wielding (A very hungry worm) dealt 2057 points of damage to The pumpkin beast and left the fight heavily wounded....

That's without the BoG

So far, it looks like my upper range for 'non-item' damage might be close. To be brutally specific, I could set a hypothetical benchmark of 2100 for the ideal 'fair' KB round damage (lol).

[DonMoody]

I checked out the 1000 and Up thread and here are the highest 'non-item' single combat results that I've found so far:

<snip>

FWIW, here is the 'clean total damage' personal best for me:

< 1 minute ago ... Beth Draedon, wielding (Shimmering Silver Longsword) dealt 1927 points of damage to The ancient dusk dragon and left the fight slightly wounded....

And by 'clean' I mean
- no use of Quickstone heals
- no use of Quickstone 20s
- no use of Blessing Of Protection
- no use of Wand of Dragonfire
- no use of Finger of Dread
- no use of Black Octagonal Gem
- no use of Wanderer's Bell
- no use of Bottle Of Spiced Root Wine
- no use of Tallys's Echoing Whisper
- no use of any items similar to the above
- essentially only normal, aggressive or defensive attacks

I figure with a bit of luck, using QS20s plus a good use/score from the Wand of Dragonfire and/or the Finger of Dread, I would probably be able to break the 2K mark if I kept trying at it (that is, score a total of 2k+ damage in an engagement without using the Black Octagonal Gem).

Not sure if any of the noted 2K+ scores were 'clean' (as defined above) or involved (for example) use of QS20s, Wand of Dragonfire, Finger of Dread or the like.

But when I track my personal bests, I track only two categories:
- 'clean' (detailed above)
- 'anything goes' (current personal best for this is 9,275)

I gues I could add another category for tracking:
- 'no BOG, all else OK'

DonMoody

P.S. Thanks for participating in the discussion.

[scout1idf]

My 2 cents worth....


If the GM gives it to us to use, it's fair.

What (seems) unfair is when you spent the last 30 minutes beating the life out of a "BOSS" and someone just walks in and gets the kill. No matter what method they use. (I've had quite a few kills stolen from me so I know the agony of it.)

That being said...

If someone comes home from work, school or whatever, sits down and there is a MP going on and he/she wants to play, that is their rite.
It doesn't matter if the "BOSS" is at 100% or 1%.

Just remember......

This is a game. Some of us pay to play and some don't. But in the end it is a game. Your life isn't going to be any better or worse just because "Wolfie" got killed by someone else after you did all the work.

Just sit back and enjoy the ride like the GM intended......

[Oldschool]

Just sit back and enjoy the ride like the GM intended......

Well said Scout - duly repped.

[texlaw1992]

I assure you my 2131 against the Pumpkin was entirely clean - no powers or items. My battle rage just kicked in and never left.

I had another similar 2000+ round against the wolf or dragon (there's a post about it in the same thread).

[DonMoody]

I assure you my 2131 against the Pumpkin was entirely clean - no powers or items. My battle rage just kicked in and never left.

I had another similar 2000+ round against the wolf or dragon (there's a post about it in the same thread).

Those are the two highest 'clean' totals I know of.
Was each achieved with your Shadowfire Sword?
Or some other weapon?

In another thread (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=48825&postcount=670), I asked about weapons with powers that deal extra damage and if there are some weapons which (on an average damage per round basis) deal more damage than others.

I was surprised when I broke the 1900 mark.
To see a couple 2k+ scores is amazing!

DonMoody

[Badstench]

I keep a personal code of conduct when it comes to 'scoring' (as oposed to stealing) the killing blow, but I don't expect anyone else to follow the same example.

By and large, I agree with Scout's comment...
If someone comes home from work, school or whatever, sits down and there is a MP going on and he/she wants to play, that is their rite.
It doesn't matter if the "BOSS" is at 100% or 1%.

Just remember......

This is a game. Some of us pay to play and some don't. But in the end it is a game.

And it wasn't too long ago that people were complaining about the length of time it required to 'take down' the multiplayer opponents. The result of those complaints was the BoG.

You asked for it, you got it! The BoG is the tool by which someone's prayers were answered... or,

Somewhere there's a mischievous leprechaun laughing its impish head off (Hahahahaha-kerplop).

[Oldschool]

And it wasn't too long ago that people were complaining about the length of time it required to 'take down' the multiplayer opponents. The result of those complaints was the BoG.

You asked for it, you got it! The BoG is the tool by which someone's prayers were answered... or,

Somewhere there's a mischievous leprechaun laughing its impish head off (Hahahahaha-kerplop).


Lol..... and excellent point BS.

[texlaw1992]

Yes, both my 2000+ rounds with with my Shadowfire Sword Diamond. They were 2131 against the Pumpkin and (I think) 2057 against either the dragon or the wolf (there's a post about it in the same thread). My battle rage just kicked in and never let up.

[spencer]

Massive Pumpkin Beast is no more. The fearsome giant pumpkin was valiantly engaged by a brave band of Sryth's most illustrious heroes in a brutal battle that lasted 0 hour(s) and 20 minute(s).

It was ultimately the illustrious adventurer, Beth Draedon (donmoody), who brought down The pumpkin beast.

Wielding her trusted weapon (Shadowfire Mace), the valiant Beth Draedon ended the menace of The pumpkin beast by dealing out a total of 4255 point(s) of damage in her final engagement with the fearsome giant pumpkin.

Here are the names of some of the bravest adventurers who stood against The pumpkin beast, and the damage they scored against the fearsome giant pumpkin...

Adventurer Damage
1. Celine (grif123456) 9,600
2. Feurrian (killenthevil) 8,014
3. Hawk (oldschool) 4,963
4. Beth Draedon (donmoody) 4,255
5. Kyleni (nolly) 3,939
6. Esoteric (oldschool) 3,364
7. Voltan (oldschool) 3,155
8. Virago (oldschool) 3,011

Congrats Celine and Beth Draedon. All non BOG participation on my part as I hit and ran with 'em in Ildraria.

I am sorry, but I don't think that someone who slunk in for one round and used their BOG deserves to be congratulated.

[DonMoody]

I am sorry, but I don't think that someone who slunk in for one round and used their BOG deserves to be congratulated.

Interesting POV.
Is it really any more offensive than this (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655)?

At least in the post I referenced (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655) and in the fight mentioned above, I was *actually, directly* involved in both battles.
And while I say even if the total damage from the "final engagement with the ancient dusk dragon" in the post I referenced (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655) was 4,254 (i.e. equal to the "Adventurer Damage" of the character that achieved the KB here (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655)), no one would have any just cause for complaint, however if someone did have cause to complain, one would at the very least expect that complaint to come from someone actually involved in the fight and perhaps most likely from the individual who did more damage than all other participants combined, like I did here (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655).
But I have no complaint about this fight (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655), nor would I expect anyone else to have any issue with what happened there (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655).
But perhaps some do have some complaint.

Someone actually involved in the fights says "Congrats" then someone not even involved in the fight speaks up and say "I disagree".
Well, I guess that's one perspective and one way to go about it (though, to me, it seems odd to be offended by a game event one wasn't even involved in).

Anyway, thanks for the congrats Oldschool.
And thanks to Spencer for another opportunity to discuss this, apparently, still unresolved aspect (which has also been discussed here (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49663&postcount=376) and here (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49617&postcount=372), to note just a couple of the many posts on this topic).

DonMoody

P.S. The term "slunk" generally has negative connotations and could readily be considered inflammatory.
While I do not believe such was the intention in the use of the word 'slunk' (I mean, after all, this is just a game - surely no one is getting that offended by a past time?), if one was offended by part of an event they were not even involved it, it might be better to simply say 'I am offended' instead of leaving readers to wonder 'was that possible slight intentional or inadvertent?'

[spencer]

Interesting POV.
Is it really any more offensive than this (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655)?

At least in the post I referenced (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655) and in the fight mentioned above, I was *actually, directly* involved in both battles.
And while I say even if the total damage from the "final engagement with the ancient dusk dragon" in the post I referenced (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655) was 4,254 (i.e. equal to the "Adventurer Damage" of the character that achieved the KB here (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655)), no one would have any just cause for complaint, however if someone did have cause to complain, one would at the very least expect that complaint to come from someone actually involved in the fight and perhaps most likely from the individual who did more damage than all other participants combined, like I did here (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655).
But I have no complaint about this fight (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655), nor would I expect anyone else to have any issue with what happened there (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655).
But perhaps some do have some complaint.

Someone actually involved in the fights says "Congrats" then someone not even involved in the fight speaks up and say "I disagree".
Well, I guess that's one perspective and one way to go about it (though, to me, it seems odd to be offended by a game event one wasn't even involved in).

Anyway, thanks for the congrats Oldschool.
And thanks to Spencer for another opportunity to discuss this, apparently, still unresolved aspect (which has also been discussed here (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49663&postcount=376) and here (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49617&postcount=372), to note just a couple of the many posts on this topic).

DonMoody

P.S. The term "slunk" generally has negative connotations and could readily be considered inflammatory.
While I do not believe such was the intention in the use of the word 'slunk' (I mean, after all, this is just a game - surely no one is getting that offended by a past time?), if one was offended by part of an event they were not even involved it, it might be better to simply say 'I am offended' instead of leaving readers to wonder 'was that possible slight intentional or inadvertent?'


I will just respond by saying that there is a difference in that I did not use the BOG to get the KB in the fight you reference, and you used it and it was the only round you fought in the whole battle. I meant no slight to you personally with the term, "slunk". If I offended you with its usage, then I do apologize.
As far as it being unresolved, I am not sure that I agree with that. It all comes down to how you want to play. Just as we all have the right to choose how we wish to play within the rules, we all have the right to comment on the different styles of play. I bear you no personal or game enmity. I just know how frustrating it can be to work to get a KB and then have someone snap it away without having contributed much to the fight.

[DonMoody]

I just know how frustrating it can be to work to get a KB and then have someone snap it away without having contributed much to the fight.

Could you give a specific definition to the phrase "without having contributed much to the fight"?
That wording is simply to vague for me to comprehend what you mean.

From what you have previously written, I am inferring that you see this:
Beth Draedon (donmoody) 4,255
(when the above was in the top half of damage contributors and no participant in the fight did even 25% of the total damage dealt)
as falling into your category of "without having contributed much to the fight"?

And I am also inferring that you see this:
Spencer Lionking (Durgin) 4,254
(when the above was in the bottom half of damage contributors and one participant in the fight did more than 50% of the total damage dealt)
as not falling into your category of "without having contributed much to the fight"?

Did I get the above correct?

And finally, which of the following (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49796&postcount=680) do you see as having 'contributed much to the fight' (and thus being 'deserving' of the KB) and which would exclude from that category (i.e. label with "without having contributed much to the fight" and thus being 'undeserving' of the KB):

Adventurer Damage
1. Valkiry (raykor) 17,643
2. Marden (meduwyn) 6,069
3. Shadowblack (shadowblack) 4,346
4. Lili Silvat (meduwyn) 3,672
5. Kaia Silvat (meduwyn) 2,517
6. Rune (meduwyn) 2,508
7. Aren Vork (quaan) 743

Because the KB for the above fight was achieved by someone exclusively using Gating in their final engagement.
Which I find amazing and perhaps even unique (and definitely - for me at least - an accomplishment worthy of a 'Congrats'; yet I admit others may see that differently).

DonMoody

P.S. A specific question:

Given this:

Adventurer Damage
1. Beth Draedon (donmoody) 19,707
2. Chaos (draxas) 15,509
3. Blix (jackfrost65) 5,027
4. Aragorn (kmaltese) 3,326

And given that it was Aragorn that "ended the menace of The ancient dusk dragon", was it fair / unfair that Aragorn got the KB?
And as importantly, does the answer to that question *really* depend upon how much damage was done (or not done) in the final engagement?
Because, for the life of me, I just can't see how that could have any effect on how someone answers that "fair / unfair" question ...
And if your answer does depend upon final engagement damage dealt, could you please explain in detail why that is ?
(and please use small words so I will be able to follow along and understand?)
Thanks.

[spencer]

The main difference for me, and fair/unfair may be the wrong terms, is the time spent. In the example above, you were in for one round (or at least only did damage in one round) only and used the BOG to get the KB, when others had clearly put in more time.

For the second example (where I scored 4254 damage), I did not use the BOG, I was there at the beginning and left because no one else was there and came back. To be honest, when I saw you participating, it motivated me to try and achieve the KB. I did not use the BOG, which has a much higher KB success rate when there are multiple participants. I contributed, 5-6 rounds of fighting to that fight. In the first example, you contributed exactly one. That is the main difference. The total amount of damage does not tell the whole story in your two examples. Normally, I would have left it alone when I came back and saw that he was "hovering," but I noticed Beth Draedon was there, so I tried to get the KB. The frustration comes in when I have been there awhile and someone comes in and spends minimal time and gets the KB. I will admit that I have done that before myself, but I only do it if I know at least some of the current participants have done it themselves, in the past. Does that penalize others fighting in the group? Maybe, but I never said that I was not hypocritical about everything :)

If someone is there at least a few rounds, I enjoy the joust. I like the challenge of competing for the KB. If someone is not there long, comes in and BOGs, it takes away that challenge, IMO. I will write more when I have a little more time.

[DonMoody]

To be honest, when I saw you participating, it motivated me to try and achieve the KB.
Normally, I would have left it alone when I came back and saw that he was "hovering," but I noticed Beth Draedon was there, so I tried to get the KB.

Thanks for your comments and participation in the discussion.
I am glad I 'inspired' you to try for the KB - which you did achieve!
Congratulations on both accounts.
I could be mistaken, but I do not think I've ever 'complained' when an MP ended like this (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=49702&postcount=655), with me having done a significant share of the 'heavy lifting' (in this case, over 50% of the total damage was dealt by my character).
And that [having no issues/concerns re: the course/end of an MP battle] is the case regardless of how the KB was achieved.

Does that make be a better player/person/whatever?
No, more likely just an apathetic loser.:eek:


The main difference for me, and fair/unfair may be the wrong terms, is the time spent.

Other than your own character's which you control, isn't it actually virtually impossible to know how much time any one actually spent in an MP?
And while perhaps somewhat indicative, the number of rounds is certainly not a definitive measure, and may perhaps not even be a relative measure.

For example, compare fast vs slow connections and how much time the 'machine gun' method requires for a complete engagement (or even 2 or 3 full engagements) vs how much time is required to use a magical power for every round of a single engagement.
Does someone 'machine gunning' with a fast connection who spends less [real time] to achieve 3 (or more) rounds than what someone else who has a slow connection and uses powers takes to achieve 1 engagement?
What about the parent playing between other household tasks who fights as few rounds, is called away, fight some more, away again, then back to finish the engagement?
Or the person sneaking in a few MP moments as possible at work?
[On that last note, there have been many times in the past year where a single engagement took me 5, 10 or more minutes to complete because of interruptions. A few times I finished the engagement only to find out the MP had been over; a couple time I finished the engagement only to find out I actually got the MP - and once when the beastie was well over 50% when that engagement began.]

And what about the engagements where one gets killed or flees to avoid getting killed?
In most of the MPs you might see that event (though not always - it may not have shown in the registry when you were looking or there may been 3 subsequent events, so it was 'pushed out').
And against Ulgror, who don't even know who else is there [I]fighting **, let alone if they die (and their round does not register).

** Although you can get some idea of who was in the area recently, though that is no indication that they ever engaged in the MP.

The above is one of the reasons I was surprised when Aren Vork (quaan) achieved the KB by calling upon his mastery of magic (Gating) - even though he only did 743 points of damage in his final engagement (and, FWIW, though it really means little, if anything, at least to me anyways, only engagement).


I would argue it is impossible to compare how much [real] time was spent in an MP since it is essentially impossible to have that data for any character other than your own.
Given that, I would argue that any 'gauge' of 'acceptable time spent to deserve the KB' is a personal perspective at best (and due to the large number of unknowns might be better described by the phrase 'arbitrary and capricious').

Given all the variables, and all the unknowns, I am going with the OS view of "Congrats" to any player who achieves the KB or total damage (and double "Congrats" if it happens to be the same individual).

But, as always, opinions vary.
The above is an insight into some of my current ones.

Thanks again for the discussion,

DonMoody

P.S. Thought I might as well add this 'fuel' to the 'discussion fire':

The battle is over...for now...

Massive Pumpkin Beast is no more. The fearsome giant pumpkin was valiantly engaged by a brave band of Sryth's most illustrious heroes in a brutal battle that lasted 0 hour(s) and 16 minute(s).

It was ultimately the illustrious adventurer, Nolly (nolly), who brought down The pumpkin beast.

Wielding his trusted weapon (Hale Blade), the valiant Nolly ended the menace of The pumpkin beast
by dealing out a total of 7360 point(s) of damage
in his final engagement with the fearsome giant pumpkin.

Here are the names of some of the bravest adventurers who stood against The pumpkin beast, and the damage they scored against the fearsome giant pumpkin...

Adventurer Damage
1. Bladesinger (dhammett) 23,759
2. Nolly (nolly) 7,360
3. Teagan (taishouanora) 5,325
4. Wrathborne (jsusi1) 2,806
5. Ausjanae (boogie) 854

* Please continue...

Congrats to Bladesinger for total damage and Nolly for the KB!

[spencer]

I was actually coming back here to comment on the KB that Nolly just achieved (not to rant or disparage, but it reminded me of something else). I think it is curious in that when you use the BOG in the battle in a round in which the KB is not achieved, if you do over a certain amount of damage ( I think it is around 4K), then you get the "bounceback," "healing," or "max damage," effect. That is, if you knock the monster down to say, 27% and do, say, 6754 damage, and you go to fight the next round, the monster, for example, might be "back" at 31%. In the instance above, Nolly did 7360 damage, which kind of squashes the theory of max damage, but does lend credence to the healing or bounceback theories. Unless, of course, the monster had less than 7360 and was under what the damage ceiling is, then it could still be that theory that works as well.

Don, I have not read your entire post above, but when I do, I will make a response.

[Doolipalally]

Could someone move all this to the appropriate discussion thread?

[Badstench]

This is something I've noticed... specifically while battling against Ulgror:

When I've been reduced to low stamina points, I'll judiciously engage a Blessing of Protection, especially if I've already done 30+ rounds. (you never know... it's better to be safe than sorry.)

But sometimes, the game ignores the fact that I've used a Blessing. Gratefully, I've never been killed when this happens, but I'd be surely angry if death did occur.

Has anyone else experienced this?

[Oldschool]

Not that I recall. Just wondering if you've noticed if it's after he coats you in tar when you're still "paralyzed"?

I'm thinking it may be similar to when some of the other mp bosses "ignore" you. I know stored 20's don't work then (when ignored not sure about the other). Maybe that has something to do with the BoPs.....?

[scout1idf]

This is something I've noticed... specifically while battling against Ulgror:

When I've been reduced to low stamina points, I'll judiciously engage a Blessing of Protection, especially if I've already done 30+ rounds. (you never know... it's better to be safe than sorry.)

But sometimes, the game ignores the fact that I've used a Blessing. Gratefully, I've never been killed when this happens, but I'd be surely angry if death did occur.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I've had it happen a few times across all the MP's...

Annoying, isn't it?!?!?!

[spencer]

I am pretty sure it occurs when you're stunned or paralyzed as OS mentioned.

[Oldschool]

This got me thinking. I'm usually spamming so fast I don't notice anything unless my health goes down and then by the time I react it's often too late aka "you've been slain".

Just wondering if the BOGs are affected? I'm guessing not or someone would've seen it by now and posted. Anyhoo that got me thinking about the BOG/KB issue.

What if the GM implemented a (hold your dereps folks :rolleyes:) random chance, or a mechanic with a random "attachment", that a BOG attack would fizzle, fail, stall, etc.... This wouldn't expend the charge but would incur a timer with a much shorter reset. And the timer could have a random range as well.

As much as I BOG I wouldn't mind it - in fact it'd be an interesting twist. And for me not because of the BOG/KB issue although that's what spurred the idea, but the fact that it would add an unknown and give an interesting twist to the MPs especially when "stratergizing".

Of course I usually hit and run and seldom involve the BOG or anything else when I'm going for the KB. I trust to my fast connection and luck and seem to do pretty well when I do so which is why I think that has as much to do with KB "success" as anything else.

Or there could be a very progressive downward sliding BOG damage scale involved once the boss reaches a certain threshold close to KB range. Or a BOG lockout timer when the foe gets to a certain threshold. Or a mechanic added that ensured a BOG blast wouldn't result in a KB but wouldn't affect the damage/xp "payout".

Oh and that last paragraph is mainly me just being ornery. :cool:;)

[scout1idf]

What if the GM could add in a requirement to fight in a minimum number of rounds (say 5-10) to receive XP reward for damage done, otherwise you get only the minimum 64XP?

That would end the Bog and Run tactics that seem to P!$$ people off.
No more showing up at the last minute or hovering to get the KB.

I know that 5-10 rounds may still seems like minimal damage done to someone that has been there from the beginning, but it's better than 1 round.

[DonMoody]

All of these ideas are interesting.

However, I think the best answer would be to simply change the XP pay out.
Currently, with [maximum allowed] 18 skills and 11 powers, the KB is worth [all combined] a touch less than 4k XP.
I say spread that around to all participants.

Perhaps something like:

The KB grants an immediately 1024 general XP 'bonus'.

When you go to the blue door, the Special Multiplayer Scenario Experience Bonuses would not be just general XP but also have an AS&P XP rider; perhaps on a 50:1 ratio.
For example, you could get:
2,400 general XP plus 48 AS&P

That would keep the total XP pay out about the same as it is now.
It would just be a bit more evenly distributed to all participants.

DonMoody

[spencer]

All of these ideas are interesting.

However, I think the best answer would be to simply change the XP pay out.
Currently, with [maximum allowed] 18 skills and 11 powers, the KB is worth [all combined] a touch less than 4k XP.
I say spread that around to all participants.

Perhaps something like:

The KB grants an immediately 1024 general XP 'bonus'.

When you go to the blue door, the Special Multiplayer Scenario Experience Bonuses would not be just general XP but also have an AS&P XP rider; perhaps on a 50:1 ratio.
For example, you could get:
2,400 general XP plus 48 AS&P

That would keep the total XP pay out about the same as it is now.
It would just be a bit more evenly distributed to all participants.

DonMoody


I think that's a great idea. Right now, for my main, it is all about AS&P rewards as I am trying to train everything with only specific XP. I think a sliding scale based upon the total damage done would be fair and keep people from getting frustrated.

[demojan777]

IMHO, the only thing that would completely remove complaints about people "stealing" the Killing Blow in Multiplayer battles would be to remove the reward for the Killing Blow altogether.

For the record, I am NOT saying that I endorse and/or condone such a change to the game.

The reward is there for those able to capitalize on the opportunity afforded them and their timing, or for those who happen to be lucky enough to get the last hit in (for me it's usually the latter; some rounds I'll do more damage using nothing except Aggressive attacks than other rounds when I use items).

Even if there were other conditions applied to it, it would still essentially be the same thing it is now, just more wonky.

There would still be people who felt cheated out of the KB award even if they spent 30 rounds fighting something and the one who got the KB spent 7, or whatever type of limit would theoretically be placed on it.

Just like anything else, if you feel cheated about something that is completely legal and possible within the rules of Sryth, remember the immortal words of ICE-T:

"Don't hate the player, hate the game."

No further words from me on this subject, as it's a moot point and only encourages dissent and negativity in a community that I enjoy being in for its positivity and general awesomeness.

[DonMoody]

I assure you my 2131 against the Pumpkin was entirely clean - no powers or items. My battle rage just kicked in and never left.

I had another similar 2000+ round against the wolf or dragon (there's a post about it in the same thread).

I was surprised when I broke the 1900 mark.
To see a couple 2k+ scores is amazing!

While beating on the werewolf just a few minutes ago, I achieved this:

< 1 minute ago ... Beth Draedon, wielding (Bloodrune Trident) dealt 2122 points of damage to Talderus Redborn and left the fight severely wounded....

which is a new non-BOG record for me.

As texlaw1992 said with Lancelot achieving 2k+ scores:
My battle rage just kicked in and never let up.

DonMoody

[texlaw1992]

It's not easy to beat 2000 - and less than 10 points from mine, no easy feat.

[Badstench]

If it's not bad ebough I have to contend with cantankerous were-wolves... bloody Varsil shows up to the fight wielding... "What the hell are those????"

******

< 1 minute ago ... Judge Fury, wielding (Shadowfire Sword) dealt 816 points of damage to Talderus Redborn and left the fight severely wounded....
< 1 minute ago ... Allanon was slain in combat by Talderus Redborn.
< 1 minute ago ... VARSIL DEMONSOUL, wielding (Judge Furys Underpants) dealt 794 points of damage to Talderus Redborn and left the fight heavily wounded....

******

And I spent most of the battle chuckling so hard I forgot to keep an eye on my 'health meter', consequently dying twice!

That plundering of my laundry basket will be avenged, Demonsoul!

And, No Thankyou, I do not want them back!

[Tetracapillactomist]

If it's not bad ebough I have to contend with cantankerous were-wolves... bloody Varsil shows up to the fight wielding... "What the hell are those????"

******

< 1 minute ago ... Judge Fury, wielding (Shadowfire Sword) dealt 816 points of damage to Talderus Redborn and left the fight severely wounded....
< 1 minute ago ... Allanon was slain in combat by Talderus Redborn.
< 1 minute ago ... VARSIL DEMONSOUL, wielding (Judge Furys Underpants) dealt 794 points of damage to Talderus Redborn and left the fight heavily wounded....

******

And I spent most of the battle chuckling so hard I forgot to keep an eye on my 'health meter', consequently dying twice!

That plundering of my laundry basket will be avenged, Demonsoul!

And, No Thankyou, I do not want them back!

That's the best use of an in-game feature I've seen so far!

I've got to put those useless icons to use! :)

(Can't stop thinking of Bottom now! And disturbingly enough, of questionable undergarments, Mayall's and Edmondson's alike, not to mention the above-mentioned unmentionables...
and Rik's "the original Van der Heusen [?] shirt"... :D
Guess I'll go watch a few episodes - might as well.)

EDIT: thanks for posting that, Badstench, and not letting it go unnoticed by this grateful member of the "great unwashed." ;) :D

[scout1idf]

This is not an issue as much as an observation about the randomness of the game mechanics....


A Bog & Run got Scout...
The Massive Pumpkin Beast

XP +409 You've been awarded a total of 409 Experience...
409 xp applied to general...

ITEM You've acquired: Battle Marker (x5)

On other occasions, Scout has gotten top damage and the killing blow and walked away with either 0 or 1 Battle Marker.

Randomness can be awesome and it can be very frustrating. This time I'm glad it was awesome!!!

[Tetracapillactomist]

All true, and congrats! Not sure whether I got five from a single battle so far, but I doubt it... And with only 409 XP! Nice! :)
(Maybe that has something to do with it? Balancing the rewards? :))

0 BMs from TD & KB - that, I did see. :)

[Elrond]

The other face of the coin,
- Playing well over 100 and probably over 200 Yir Tanon runs without seeing the max reward.
- Playing dozens of Axepath and Jadefang runs without seeing that max reward
- Finding the ghost lady dozens of times without ever seeing the 4096-2048 reward
- Rolling three 90+ rolls in the Stonehurl Challenge and not placing in top 6

Randomness can be and is very frustrating!

[Tetracapillactomist]

Hm... must have done Axepath a few hundred times... don't even know what the max is. :D Have seen lots of pretty 'minies'... :) (96/16, if not mistaken)

Seen the Ghostly one only once for that 4000/2000 split just last week, was it? - without eve seeing the 3000/1000 split... Don't think I've seen her since.

But: yay to Scout! Once more, I'm swept up in a friendly forum member's luck (after Mahansolo and Darkrkngl making it into top 100, Ankhmahor winning the raffle, Elrond catching the hem of G-lady's dress for the 4000/2000 split, and who knows what else, that I'll think of as soon as I hit 'Submit') - now, riding on Scout's coattails:

Special Multiplayer Scenario Experience Bonuses

The Tar Beast - Ulgror

XP +1,980 You've been awarded a total of 1,980 Experience...
1,980 xp applied to general...

ITEM You've acquired: Battle Marker (x5) [ view ]
You've been awarded a total of 5 rare and valuable Battle Markers! Be sure to SAVE YOUR GAME right away!
Please continue...

After also getting TD and KB on that! :)

[Tetracapillactomist]

I'll just replicate this here ... [edit: all right, I spent at least ten - fifteen minutes searching for an even better suited thread, only to get sidetracked by posts and threads discussing forum tools and code, and so I'm done looking, this wil do for now! :)] ... as it suits 'the environment' better than in its original location (where it nonetheless follows a certain logic by being linked to previous comments).

(But I wonder if all these several similar multiplayer-related threads shouldn't in fact be gathered either in one 'mega-thread' or grouped somehow,so that they're always adjacently displayed...)

Anyway, the post in question, replicated, and related to universal muliplayer issues - in fact, the mother of all multiplayer issues, probably: KB versus TD, roleplaying versus... ach, call it civility, consideration, human interaction, civilisation, societal standards, rules of conduct - whatever... here it is:


Lest a certain dead horse be resurrected once more I might add......

Unwritten rules that are subjective and open to personal interpretation.

So yes, here's an idea:

has it ever occurred to anyone that the lack of in-game limiting factors or prevention measures against KB-snatching may be part of a delicious little social experiment?

Don't know what I'm talking about? Oh but it's simple (and highly entertaining for the Hans Castorp-like outside observer):

no ready-made, in-game barriers mean we must govern ourselves as we see fit. :)

All the observer has to do is sit back and watch the results roll in:

does our little artificial model of a macro-civilisation survive in its advanced, highly refined state - or do we, as players turn it into an enactment of William Golding's Lord of the Flies? ;)

Put that subjectivity and personal interpretation in your pipe! :)

Which was my main point long ago: do these so-called 'unwritten rules' belong to the game (which establishes none, and enforces none - that was part of the argument and of the issue), or to the players who ultimately decide, settle on, and live with them, play according to them?

Are these 'unwritten rules' really unwritten, even unheard of?

Do we give up those rules when we have to deal with fellow human players across a chess board too?
After all, we could say "I was role-playing the evil King, Queen, Knight, Bishop, Rook, pawn - whatever... So when you looked away, I took your Queen! Deal with it!"

Hark! I hear a counter-argument: stealing pieces is forbidden by the rules governing the game of chess! Ah!
But what if there's no one to enforce that rule? Does that mean it's allowed, since it can be done?
By the same token, if in a hypothetical society on earth there are no 'rules,' laws, or mechanisms in place to prevent murder
or punish the one who commits it, it then follows, according to that same logic, that since murder is feasible... it is allowed!

Hark! Here comes another objection! "This is only a game!" So is chess. Or, for that matter, 'the game of Life' - only, it's 'played for real.' :)
And this game, when in MP setting, is played in the company of real payers just like yourself (well, más o menos :D)...

Do we give up any of it for any excuse, in any setting, fantastic or real?

(Ooh, I think I just spanked and poked a dead little pony! How naughty of me! :D

Is it dead though, or is it just role-playing? ;))


As a friend is fond of saying: POW! :D ;)

[Tetracapillactomist]

... but the air is dead silent right now, and all are on vacation, 'cept for a few of us, holding down the fort - and there's an update, though being busy myself (building a raft atm, trying to get off the island...), I was slow to react to this...

As Don pointed out: gone are the in-game links which say (used to say, that is):

(There are other) Adventurers at this location...

Well, that solves everything now.

Just like the lowering of the BOG damage solved the BOG-induced KBs, as is clear to see... ;)

All right then, here we go, blindly bumping into each other - except active damage is still visible in the damage counter of some MP scenarios, and the end result summary still sees, hears, and tells all, so...

(Well, here it is... as you suggested, though not addressed to anyone in particular, it seemed to 'fit the bill.' ;))

BUMP! - "Sorry!"
"Why are you apologising?!"
"I bumped into you, so I am saying 'sorry!'"
"You didn't bump into me!..." :eek:
DUM-DUM-DUUUM!...

Will we find out who bumped into whom?

Or will our brave adventurers meet with a dire end before the fog clears and dreadful confusion is dispelled?...

Tune in next week, girls and boys, for the exciting finale of:

"Who' there?!?" or:

"Who stole the mole's hole?"

:D

[Elrond]

Hmmm ... Me thinks I've solved it.

It is that "Thievery" skill, we all have and work so hard to improve. It is subconsciously transforming us into KB-thieves. Away with that skill, I say; away with it right this instant! Tea, anyone :)

[Tetracapillactomist]

It's a surreptitious sort of aptitude, innit? :)

Tea? Yes, thank you. Now: into the lake with me (and my tea)! :D

Mmm... a Tea Lake!... a Sea of Tea... a C of T... :)

Oh, got it! Forget the BOG, the WoD, the FoD!

The newest WoMD for the MP scenarios: CoT! :D

[Elrond]

Yes! It is tea time! And you can have a C of T, Tetra; but I won't be jumping in any lakes or bodies of water larger than my bath tub anytime soon!

But aren't those MP's wonderful? They bring out the best and worst in us vis-a-vis "team work" ;) And thus, we now know that we have vastly different levels of "Skill: Teamwork."

Elrond, Elendil, Elrohir, etc.... passed on that skill when he signed up for Sryth. It is all about his ego when it comes to Sryth (game not forum). That is why his CoC is basically rewritten on whim :)

CoC: Code of Chivalry

Palo, anyone? :)

[Tetracapillactomist]

... I think I'll steal one of Don's whiskeys, and concentrate for now on teaching him how to tango my way...
I'll take you up on that palo on occasion, when my attention will seem to lag... :)

(Oh, kidding Big Moody: don't worry, I'll be as gentle as you are... ;))

And if that should fail to work, time for an 'overdose' - any Fogbough mushies in your shoulder bag, Elrond?
Even better: 'Fog-shroom' flavoured lembas? ;)

[edit] Hold on... Didn't you say the same thing about ladies?! As far as bringing out the best and worst in men?! :D
Are you recycling by any chance? :D
Oh, I suppose just about anything can bring out the worst in men... :D
And the best, you say? Oh, sure, sure... ;)
But let's not be hasty about such generous declarations vis-à-vis ourselves... :)
(Because we may be asked to measure up to them! :D)

One thing though: I say it's not about 'team work,' but rock bottom, very basic, elementary respect.
You don't squat there, lying in wait, poach a conclusive shot, then blame it all on reward mechanism, game mechanics, and design.
Sorry, but that's just dried-up old bullocks dangling in the wind, that no one's buying even for exotic medicine.

Because I can be as much an 'individualist' as a tiger on the prowl for prey. (Yes, well... I can have an 'inflated' self-image occasionally... :)
Lone wolf my eye... Unlike wolves, tigers never hunt in packs. You need a lone something? Take the tiger.:))
So I can - and will - do that naturally enough, and there are very few I tolerate and allow to get too close -
but I try my best not to screw any of them (all right, Tex: calm down! :)) - call it what you will, I think that fastener has its linguistic purpose, much like some implements, like spades (in calling them what they are), shovels (and shovelfuls of ...), hoes... (Tex: cold shower! Now! :D)

Anyway, I'm falling asleep again, so this is the best I can do right now... See you on the other side of 'Dreamtime.'

[Elrond]

And if that should fail to work, time for an 'overdose' - any Fogbough mushies in your shoulder bag, Elrond?[/I]

Nope! I don't do mushrooms. They're a temporary boost; and I like more solid, long term improvements to MR.

But let's not be hasty about such generous declarations vis-à-vis ourselves... :)
(Because we may be asked to measure up to them! :D)

Please tell me if and when I don't measure up to them :)

One thing though: I say it's not about 'team work,' but rock bottom, very basic, elementary respect.
You don't squat there, lying in wait, poach a conclusive shot, then blame it all on reward mechanism, game mechanics, and design.
Sorry, but that's just dried-up old bullocks dangling in the wind, that no one's buying even for exotic medicine.

Two points:

1: If roleplaying is an element that is indicator of real-life respect; then I'm not catching on to that. Playing an evil character is all about disrespect. In any case, if what I refer to as "team work" in Sryth MP's is "rock bottom, very basic, elementary respect;" then I reword my statement into having passed on the "Skill: rock bottom, very basic, elementary respect!" (I'm sure the GM won't like to code that into our skills list ;)

2- Squating and waiting till the last round was never the issue. The angle where I'm coming from is to simply log on, see and MP in the adventure finder; and then rush in there with no restraints to try and get as much damage done and hope to get a KB.

And with the way things are with some MP's, I can make any MP that has been left for an hour or more seem like a solo MP by simply doing 3 quick rounds. Then I can lay claim to half an MP :p , or whatever is left of it! And rue any soul that dares steal my half KB!

[Tetracapillactomist]

Nope! I don't do mushrooms. They're a temporary boost; and I like more solid, long term improvements to MR.

Funny thing - nor do I. :D Never even been collecting, for the same reason, but I know many are. In truth, knowing you a bit, personally, I didn't think you'd bother much with them - but then, it was only for the sake of the pun, joke, whatever. :)

Please tell me if and when I don't measure up to them :)

I wouldn't dare presume to... yeah, OK, will do. :D :p

Two points:

1: If roleplaying is an element that is indicator of real-life respect; then I'm not catching on to that. Playing an evil character is all about disrespect. In any case, if what I refer to as "team work" in Sryth MP's is "rock bottom, very basic, elementary respect;" then I reword my statement into having passed on the "Skill: rock bottom, very basic, elementary respect!" (I'm sure the GM won't like to code that into our skills list ;)

Hm... There's a honking huge philosophical debate enclosed in that role-play vs. 'real life' premise. Two sub-points:

- it is one thing to play the disrespectful cur and scourge in a game - against "non-player characters" (NPCs) that the game provides;

- it's a very different thing being a cur with your fellow players - and if intentionally too, well, that's a whole other layer of brown jam. Even if it happens within a game, in your in-game dealings - a 'virtual room,' if you'll allow.

Of course, you could proclaim any room within your home as a 'respect-free area.' But the game - or any shared space, be it real or virtual - is not your home, not really your home, if you think about it for a moment; though you are welcome in it as if it were your home.

Welcome home, Elrond - but this is our home, all of ours. We can share it on mutually agreeable terms.

Is that proposition really so awful, so disagreeable, so intolerably, unbearably limiting, that you can't abide it?
You really must be able to upset fellow players at will and without regard (or just not care about doing so) in order to get enjoyment out of the game? The option to be evil to NPCs, computer-generated sprites and such, is not evil enough, does not satisfy the craving for indulgence in antisocial acts?

Not judging, only clarifying the way I see it. I don't really care, don't intend to convince you that I'm "righteous" or such, and you are not - I really do not care either way, as I don't feel the need to "prove myself."

Well, I don't care, that is, until you, as Don did, cross me within the game. :) Because then I'll embrace my in-game freedom to express my real life feral character (duly repressed in the real world, reasoned with, and relegated to the subconscious, kept in check more or less successfully and constantly, as a potentially harmful little 'id' should be :)), and my in-game persona, echoing and carrying my own, may decide to haunt and hunt you as long as I see fit to continue on that (war) path - as Don chose to call it: "[...] 'friendly competition' "
Or as you call it: "roleplaying."

All in good fun, of course (I'm not being sarky! I do enjoy it in various degrees!), as I find such things add spice to gaming. :)
And such things may spill over into the forum (as it's presently happening), but never in an excessive way, and never in a way that would undo or jeopardise my real respect for your real character, such as I know it.
In other words, if you cross or injure my in-game character sufficiently to really 'get my going,' it's that in-game character that will haunt and hunt your own, not me, personally, doing it to you... personally.
But I'm sure that much is obvious.

Still, it doesn't hurt specifying, I guess: what I will feel, will be real anger, and a real thirst for revenge - but luckily (hopefully? ;)), I'm (mostly :D) able to separate fantasy from reality, fact from fiction. ;)
So things will be contained by the game, with some banter on this side, possibly. :)

And just so you know (and this is more 'warning' that I'd normally give a potential 'nemesis' whom I rather keep in the dark, and encourage to underestimate me :)): I'm only getting started with the game. ;) We'll see how much time I can devote to it, but since I've decided to focus more on it, rather than the Wiki and the in-game reporting, I should have some time to actually play the game a little, and am looking forward to it - barring other welcome distractions that I enjoy, or obligations I feel compelled to, or have no choice but fulfil. :)

So, see you on the battlefield, you naughty little elf! ;) (No disrespect meant, father Elrond!) If you're lucky, you'll meet the perhaps equally naughty little imp - if not, well... there's the seriously (tediously? :)) grave and sometimes foreboding righteous and honourable man, and in extreme cases, that feral mass of accumulated rage that's able to tear down doors and walls, residing in that id, just below the surface. :)
Yes, roleplaying is fun. ;)

That nomenclature: :D He could, of course, but that is 'Tetra-long'... :D It would require too much space to be fully displayed, so he'd stick to "Skill: Consideration" or "Skill: Respect." :) (And by the way, I don't claim to be legendary in either, but I try - sometimes I try really hard, sometimes it's easy, and comes naturally... such is life...)

2- Squatting and waiting till the last round was never the issue. The angle where I'm coming from is to simply log on, see and MP in the adventure finder; and then rush in there with no restraints to try and get as much damage done and hope to get a KB.

And with the way things are with some MP's, I can make any MP that has been left for an hour or more seem like a solo MP by simply doing 3 quick rounds. Then I can lay claim to half an MP :p , or whatever is left of it! And rue any soul that dares steal my half KB!

I can't know that, but I believe you - however, you do only speak for yourself, I trust and hope, and not claiming to know that about every other player indulging in the practice of 'final blow - then blow!'

I don't think anyone in their right mind can, or does have an issue with that final point - some MPs I've found were left unfinished, abandoned for over seven hours (!), as I recall - we can't well leave them hanging for days! :D

(Oh, but I will dare steal yours if you steal mine or someone else's I care about in any way! :D Don't even bother to waste your time pondering that - the only thing uncertain, is whether I'll succeed every time, which is doubtful - but I will try, so help me Puck, I will try! :))

Oh, but this is fun! :D (Well, till I get really peeved, that is - but even then, I should be able to regain my bearings... eventually. ;))

[edit] Had fun writing this reply - real, innocent fun, at no one's expense! So don't take it the wrong way, as it is written, partly, in the spirit of the game.
And don't forget your...
GRAIN OF SALT... □
:D

[Elrond]

Why did I (you can choose any name or moniker in my archives) start playing Sryth in the first place? And why am I still here after nearly 4 or 5 years?

- It is a single-player game; meaning that I am alone in my fantasy world. No restraints on how to act and play (no one hurts me and I don't hurt anyone). Did I ever tell you that one of the reasons I quit Runescape 4 years ago was the that I got killed in the wild without any provocation? Damn, I hated that!
- It used to be, and remains to some extent, a good game that doesn't require hours and hours of daily grinding to achieve success. In Runescape, for example, one needs to play 4-5 hours a day for a full year to be able to mine Runestones and another year to be able to smith it into armor! Too much freakin' time required to achieve anything in that game.
- I can play whenever I wanted to without losing out on game content. Log on or off at ease without worrying about missing this or that deadline.

I guess that Sryth gives me the ultimate gaming freedom! And without that, the game would quit being fun; and the GM loses a customer!

My grudge against MP's goes back to the pre-Tetra days. When the GM first announced them, I had reservations (some I expressed and others were kept inside) on how that would impact Sryth's uniqueness to me. It would be players meeting at a certain time for a certain event to contest a certain prize. So, I participated in MP's, initially, depending on my game time. Then I decided that MP's weren't for me and played an average of 1 MP a month for over a year. Then the GM made certain game content dependent on MP's and I was forced to play them to get said stuff. And I've finally decided that doing a BOG round in a minute and getting a few hundred general xp was feasible.

In brief, here is my suggestion for a solution to our dilemma:

Simply remove the KB and award xp based on damage percentage. Each MP round can be worth 8192 general xp, which get divided among participating players depending on damage done.

[Ankhmahor]

So... I'm too lazy sleepy to do more than a superfluous search...
But didn't anyone come up with a live chat idea, say in IRC, to coordinate MPs right here right now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub747pprmJ8)? Not to mention quite the opportunity to chat your life some free time away. :D

[scout1idf]

With the exception of replacing bands on my finger (which seems to take most if not all of the battle for me), I view the MP's as a grinder that I can walk out on at any given time without the ill effect of loosing out on the final reward.

It's great to get the killing blow, especially if I've done most of the damage, but the (regular) end reward is what I'm after.

If I choose to show up and BOG the crap out of the baddie and leave or fight to the end, I will still get a decent reward.

I usually apologize if I walk in late and take the Kill. I wonder if that is me or Scout talking? Ok, it's both of us.

The other night, I walked into a MP at the end (3%) and took the kill with a BOG blast from someone that I didn't know (no one from the forum). Coming in at 3%, I figured that the end reward would be < 100xp so why not get something more for showing up?

That was the first time that I didn't feel guilty about it. They weren't "family" so I didn't care.

Was that wrong of me to do that? Was it wrong of me to feel that way?

After all, this is just a game. No one was "hurt" by my actions and if they were there long enough, their reward would be pretty nice anyway.


Just some thoughts.....

[Tetracapillactomist]

All three of you have made good points, all seem good, to me but I'm short on time or in too much of a hurry (for having wasted far too much time on a project unrelated to the game, inefficiently - so much for having time to play), so I'll just graze your epidermis, all, with a blunt needle - be brave boys now! ;)

Elrond: I can say - and for the first time, which I only realised after reading that latest post - I finally understand you position, view, and situation fully, and I can say it's much less 'ominous' or 'objectionable' than your own previous hints and comment seem to have suggested: you simply don't particularly care for the MP element (I haven't either - at all! - until after that full thread-length discussion started by Blackcrowe, and joined by DonMoody so... um... let's see now... vehemently?... heavy-handedly perhaps?... oh, well, no offence either way), and do them on occasion, out of necessity. You make the best of it, then move on - no need for you to feel the need to explain any more, in my opinion. And in a way, Don has a fairly similar approach, though the implication there are, again, on the heavy-handed side, since he nearly makes a credo and a career out of it, both in terms of determination and of frequency.

(Sorry, Don, but there it is: the fox has a right to feed, yes, but it better be fully aware that even the most mellow hunter will be peeved if the ducks he shoots out of the sky keep disappearing before he gets to them.
True, the ducks are not truly 'his,' but he might expect to bag them, if he did most of the damage in bringing them down from up above. So you can take the duck, but count on becoming the hunter's alternative target. That's just the way things are, game or no game.)

Elrond, your solution seems another good one, similar to Don's - and I still like mine as well: leave KB reward as it is, but give it (or more - or reduce the KB reward somewhat, if deemed so necessary) also to the TD scorer - the proportional rewards for each intermediate damage scorer are already taken care of at the windowless shack with the blue door...



Ankh... I'm not sure, actually. :) The implementation modalities being a bit of a question mark (which has more to do with me not being able to repress a raised eyebrow smile at the thought of seeing an IM chat window within the world of Sryth, rather than any technical considerations :)), my first thought is that while we'd chat about strategy, or else, Don would swoop by in a low altitude bombing sortie flying in under he radar, and poof goes the KB again... :D Second thought, more serious, is that we'd still need, first and foremost, a damage counter at times, and an awareness in real time of other players present - without those things a conversation would predictably end in guessing, and more uncertainty... although a stalemate could still be avoided by simply deciding 'all right, you take this KB, I'll take the next,' or some such thing. :) My guess is, it would be a hard sell, probably the hardest of all the ideas, because of the inherent (apparent?) disparity between 'the feel' of Sryth and that of a chat window, and the ensuing textual cacophony. :D Oh, boy... I can see the future... :D And it is LOUD! for all the conversational crossfire, coupled with the occasional (and potentially embarrassing) missed or mistyped whisper-mode messages appearing instead visible to all! :D But still intriguing to me. :) It would definitely need some serious consensus, and even then, I don't see the GM being overly enthused about it... :) But implementing it separately, as an overlay with adjustable opacity between individual players might be a possibility, in principle (if not technically) no different than having it run in a separate and adjacent window of tab...
Like I said: this is hurried and harried thinking at the moment, but the thing is worth thinking about. :)



Scout: well, I wouldn't call what you gone done a 'favour' (just as I wouldn't call my KB for which you unenthusiastically congratulated Sigynna Oiorpata [Denadéin] a favour, even though it was the result of some BOG-less, defensive tapping that resulted in that killing blow - again, apologies to all, whose damage count was higher, I was aiming to return Don his 'favours' :)), but you don't make it a habit, it is a game, and things happen, we get carried away by the spirit of the game and of the competition, the adrenaline, whatever, so, obviously, there's no need to fret over it. :)
Someone may have been upset momentarily, but with an apology, and within a few minutes (or hours, I suppose - days, if the person is really, really miffed), the feeling does pass, same as the upset felt over a poor roll result. After all, it only involves XP, not ATs - all recoverable loss, nothing permanent about it (though they may spoil your KB expectation sometime soon, or one of your friends' MPs, in order to repay the favour in the name of 'an eye for an eye,' or of 'what goes around, comes around' :) Was it a 'Scott,' by the way? :)).

Bah, in any case, things do happen, it is a game (but not 'just a game,' I believe - and there is a difference between those two ways of saying it), and the losses or injuries suffered are mostly virtual and temporary, so unless one makes 'messing' their vocation, it's no use fretting over it too much - it won't make you a 'good person,' but if you are one already, it won't make you a bad one either. At least the "family" knows that, and if the person whom you 'pwned' visits the forum, they know it too. :)

(OK, now I've overdone it, as usual, and I don't have time to parse my post, so... sorry for any mistakes or confusion. :) I'll probably check it later.)

As always (or more so for the hurry):
A GRAIN OF SALT... □
(That could be viewed as a tribute to you, Scout, as most tables on this forum... :D)

[edit] Forgot: thanks for that link, Ankh, I like that piece, and him, yet never seen the clip before. :)

[edit2] D... rep-buster allowed me to rep Elrond, then cut me off, so the rest will have to wait. :)

[scout1idf]

I'm not sure what you mean by this line.
.....unenthusiastically congratulated Sigynna Oiorpata [Denadéin]....

I congratulated you as I congratulate everyone else for Top Damage or the Killing Blow or Both.
On occasion I don't offer my congratulations but that's usually because it would seem arrogant to congratulate myself.

.....Was it a 'Scott,' by the way? :))......
If I remember correctly it was this (http://www.sryth.com/p/?1c465eexce28ab5ae) player.

As always (or more so for the hurry):
A GRAIN OF SALT... □
(That could be viewed as a tribute to you, Scout, as most tables on this forum... :D)
Thanks..

[Tetracapillactomist]

On the first point, then - forget about it. (The three little dots instead of your usual exclamation marks threw me, and I was projecting my regret over having arrived so late to the pumpkin pie party, scoring so little damage, and then ending up with the meatiest reward - don't worry about it: why should anyone be enthusiastic about scoring TD and losing out on the KB? Even if you're not bothered by that, it's still no reason to celebrate.)

Second: Ragoth - haven't encountered him much, if at all - I'll look out for him, and if found, I'll chip in and let him finish the job - that should square him with the "family" for that one time thing. :)

Third: master of tables, goes without saying (most of the time it actually does go without saying) - you're welcome.

(Now signing off.)

[Ankhmahor]

Actually I do not mean integrating chat in he game. I rather like it the way it is.
I meant making our own chat room.
Like This. (http://techie-buzz.com/tutorials/how-to-create-your-own-private-irc-channelroom.html)

[Tetracapillactomist]

I thought so (at least I did halfway through my response :)), but that still leaves the issue of 'players (adventurers) present' awareness unresolved.

For instance, us two could sign into the /srythmp channel, and clarify to each other our whereabouts, which would allow us to avoid nuking each other's TDs and baddies, but anyone not signed in would be flying under that radar in MP events.

"There are other adventurers at this location" - that link no longer exists, as Don first pointed it out to me, so you no longer see who may or may not be present; some MPs don't event have the 3-entry 'damage inflicted' display (and even that won't tell you much, since it only lists the names associated with the last three attacks). As a result, we could avoid stepping on each other's toes by coordinating through IRC, but we could still step on toes we'd rather avoid...

All right, this idea is obviously in its infancy. We could start a dedicated thread:
"IRC: Sryth MP Live Coordination" or "MP Coordination - Live Chat"
or some such, and use it as a hub to:

a) - gather and share technical information, post links, &c.
b) - gauge interest (poll?)
c) - decide on a client, server, channel name, access, channel modes (secret channel, invisible user mode, so that participants in the "srythmp" channel could not be solicited from outside the channel, etc.), rules, security protocols (if any - but IRC may still be used as a testbed for some forms of attacks, so choosing with some care, setting it up, an setting rules would be a good idea)
d) - anything else IRC related and more or less connected to MPs

There are quite a few things to keep in mind about IRC, and as the last time I used it was when I was a kid, and haven't paid attention to developments, however minor, I'd suggest approaching it with some 'due diligence.'
Security (attacks: denial of service, channel takeover, whatever else), privacy (encryption? some offer SSL), lag, disconnects/netsplits...

(Interesting thing: in the link you provided, the admin listed for that server located in WI, US and dated 2007 is "havoc." :))

So? An IRC thread? Look into this, explore the IRC coordination option?
I'd only delve into it with any 'urgency' if there's an interest - otherwise, I'll still look into it, but without much hurry. It could at least be interesting as an experiment, even helpful, to have that option.

(Is this MP thing heating up, or is it only the ambient temperature?... or my laptop?... :) I know it's not my blood - I'm cool as a cucumber right now. :))

[Doolipalally]

Went to go and bash Ildraria, and found this:

452 minutes ago ... Budman was slain in combat by The ancient dusk dragon.
521 minutes ago ... Sigynna Oiorpata, wielding (Sword of Blessed Night) dealt 2165 points of damage to The ancient dusk dragon and left the fight severely wounded....

Poor neglected beastie...

[Tetracapillactomist]

Ildy? She's a friend - I don't want to kill her! :) She goes easy on me, and I do the same. :)

I just dropped by to say hello, have a spot of tea, and a spat - had no time for our usual weighty arguments - then left her to enjoy a dragon-nap. :)

So not neglecting her - quite the contrary. :)

Budman, probably reeking of beer, woke her from that nap, and promptly paid the price... :D

[Young Ned]

Budman, probably reeking of beer, woke her from that nap, and promptly paid the price... :D

Hmm, when I see the name "Budman", my first thought was that the "bud" in question was of the herbal variety, not the beer variety. Guess that's from growing up in California... :D

[Tetracapillactomist]

Hmm, when I see the name "Budman", my first thought was that the "bud" in question was of the herbal variety, not the beer variety. Guess that's from growing up in California... :D

So be it then: reeking of... mint! :D Ildy abhors minty freshness, preferring instead tea leaves from Ceylon and Darjeeling... She's old-fashioned... make that ancient-fashioned. :) (Has she shown you her birth certificate? Phew!!! Big Bang was her childhood plaything... :D)

[texlaw1992]

In those days, she went by the name "Puff" (lol).

[Tetracapillactomist]

In those days, she went by the name "Puff" (lol).

(Another quickie... :))

Oh, right... 'Budman.' Got it. Took long enough, granted, but then I'm not too familiar with New World 'insider lingo,' and not too familiar with the English one, though I know what a spliff is, but that's all I can think of at the moment. :)

So: not mint... :) And she was known as 'Puff.' OK. I guess she gave it up?

Pusherman (yes, I know who Curtis Mayfield is or was... Don't know how I got round to his music, but I move in wide circles, so it's no surprise that I did, I suppose :)) came and tried to hassle her.
We know the result: "No means NO!" [roar]... [flames]... SPLAT!
[anyone for some roast? ;)]

'Budman...' heh. Okay. Glad that got all cleared up. 'Puff...' Poor old Ildy... :)

[Oldschool]

Pusherman...? Curtis Mayfield...?

For a minute I thought there'd been some mp tweak involving a steel cage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe4jmxs5Hqc). :cool:

I'm just not it's me that comes up posts :rolleyes: with obscure references.

And so I'm not completely off track.....

Now that it's been a while what do folks think of the BOG nerfing?

And while I don't look on KB "usurpation" as some I think most folks would like to see the BOG's restored back to their former glory. Or at least given back part of their former gusto.

I know I would, especially since the MPs seem to have dwindled down considerably since then.

Just my two cents worth.....

[Tetracapillactomist]

Meh... Well, big damage for some 'blue door' XP is nice, but opportunity makes the thief (yeah, not stealing, whatever - you KB blowers get off my back - semantics, nomenclature, whatever - call yourselves Snow White for all I care, blow off with the terminology already). And thieves p... aggravate me.

As far as KBs are concerned: I hereby offer the KB. If anyone asks me (politely), or I feel friendly towards someone, or generally in a generous mood, or grateful for a similar gesture, or owe someone a favour, I'm willing to do the TD, no big deal for me, apparently - then I'll step back, or use Resto throughout the last round, and they can have their KB.

The BOG damage don't bug me none at all. I takes it or leavesses it as it is, she's not so preciousss to me - never was.
(May be too much of a temptation if set too high, for some weak-fibred, or gluttonous ones, like The Ring was for Boromir. 'Gimme-gimme-gimme!!!' ;))

[DonMoody]

And so I'm not completely off track.....

Now that it's been a while what do folks think of the BOG nerfing?

And while I don't look on KB "usurpation" as some I think most folks would like to see the BOG's restored back to their former glory. Or at least given back part of their former gusto.

I know I would, especially since the MPs seem to have dwindled down considerably since then.

Just my two cents worth.....Was there another post that I cannot now find? Or was this post previously longer?

Anyway, here is my few cents ...

1) Provided item #5 below is also done, I would like to see the BOG damage returned to its previous levels.

2) About the same time as the BOG damage was reduced, the hit point levels of the MPs was increased from c.35K to c.45K. I would like to see this returned to its previous value so as to reduce the amount of time an MP takes (and thus increase the 'reward to time' ratio).

3) With the 'battle rage' and 'higher damage' dynamic for melee attacks, I see no reason to have any 'throttling' of damage based upon using powers in an MP. I would like to see any such 'limiting' aspects removed from the MPs.

4) While perhaps not as relevant to MPs as the other items in this list, I would also like to see the recharge time for the WoD changed to one hour (vs its current two hour recharge time).

5) The reward dynamic - which is probably the item that has resulted in the most discussion.
IMO, this is the most problematic aspect of MPs.
Achieving total damage requires tens of minutes of time & effort and, currently, at best, nets 2,400 general experience.
By comparison, the killing blow award can be achieved in less than one minute and nets an award of 256 general experience and 128 AS&P experience - which, with 18 skills & 11 powers, is a total of 3,968 experience.
It is this 'oddly unique' distribution of the spoils which promotes equally 'oddly unique' conduct in the MPs and no one should be surprised to see this 'oddly unique' conduct continue until this 'oddly unique' distribution is adjusted to a more equitable 'reward received to time spent' ratio (for all participants, not just the 'lucky one').

My current views, FWIW.

DonMoody

P.S. On that Item #5 note, I will again reiterate that the game awards the KB bonus based upon a specific criteria.
Until the game actually awards that bonus, no one has any claim (legitimate or otherwise) to that bonus - who 'should' or actually will get that reward never has been (and likely never will be) their call to make.
And once the game has awarded that bonus, it cannot be transferred (advertantly or inadvertantly).
One may not like how the game awarded that bonus but awarding that bonus is *not* the perogative of *any* player.
I suspect players who hold different views than the above 'self evident truths' have similarly 'unique' views of (amongst other events) the 78th Academy Awards ...

[Tetracapillactomist]

Good points.

As to your argument that basically amounts to:

"the game forces me to take advantage of the efforts of others" - typical rationalising balderdash, hogwash, bullpie: I don't buy that any more than I'd buy snake oil. (But by all means, feel free to go see the neighbours, I think they might be interested in your wares. They *may* own a pack of free-roaming pit bull terriers, but I'm sure they're friendly, don't let them worry you, walk right in. :))

78th Academy Awards... attempt at wit lost on me because of my ignorance of, and utter indifference towards the object of the reference, but I'm sure it's funny. :) (Please don't send me a message informing me of it, I'm really not interested, thank you - no particular reason, except the Academy Awards, and award ceremonies in general are... what they are, and of little interest to me. :))

Still, you have that good point there, under #5) - right up to the final BS - sorry :o ... I mean P.S., which is just meat by-product, recycled ad nauseam by now. :) Long live 'friendly competition,' as you termed it, Don. :)

Suspect all you want, investigate if you must, do what you please, as far as I'm concerned you are, as always, very quick to declare your truths as 'self-evident.'
Well, I have no doubt they are to you.

But speaking of 'suspicions,' I suspect that in your case the truth is in the eye of the beholder...

You want others to do the work that 'requires tens of minutes,' for you?
You want to nab those KBs in the last two rounds, investing 'less than one minute,' as you yourself admit?
Do it, don't do it, it's up to you - just stop rationalising, blaming the game and implying it makes you do things in spite of yourself...

And if you do it, well... at least I beg to be allowed to use the name of one of your favourite dance styles when referring to you.

Consider it my biased homage to DonMoody and Beth. Hope you don't mind...

[DonMoody]

As to your argument that basically amounts to:

"the game forces me to take advantage of the efforts of others"This is neither what I said nor an accurate paraphrasing of any comment I have ever made on this forum.

Apparently I am not doing a very good job of communicating the points I am trying to make.

Let me try again:

- as defined in the game, the reward dynamic is
--- a general experience reward for every participant, roughly proportionate to the time/effort committed to the MP (and which generally has a quite small random element involved to receive this reward)
--- a significantly reward (noticeably larger than the maximum participation reward which can be received) for a single participant, for one very brief instant of time/effort in the MP (and which has a very significant random element involved to receive this reward)

- given the as defined in the game the reward dynamic, there is a significant, disproportionate incentive for the two possible rewards
--- this disproportionate incentive results in behaviour which some may 'dislike' or 'find surprising' (though, IMO, given the incentive model as defined in the game, there are no real surprises here)


On a more specific 'how do I do business' note ...
- I always participate in MPs with the intent of getting as much reward as I can
- I never lurk with the intention of sniping
- when I join an MP, I do not 'back off'; I am there to kill and that is what I aim for (and am rather accomplished at)
- with practice and experience, I have found timing methods that work reasonably well (with "reasonably well" defined here as 'as often as not')
--- I have no qualms about using those 'tried and true' methods
--- though I haven't made an effort at one in many weeks, that these timing techniques do work is shown by the fact that I have used them to achieve the eight (or is it nine?) full sweeps of all five MPs (a feat which cannot be done solely through the use of BOG and the like attacks; though 'just getting lucky' may be enough to do the trick)
- I often go to an MP, attack until I have done about 10% damage then leave
--- this is where many of those 4-5-6K totals have come from (e.g. just recently, all five MPs were active, I went through each one, did about 10% damage to each then left - RL calling - and someone else got the KB in most if not all of those MPs)
- some may have other ideas of 'how players should act', and that is their right but:
--- everyone has the right to their opinion; no one has a right to their own facts (e.g. how the game defines how the MP rewards are distributed is not an opinion; that when the game awards the MP rewards that those rewards cannot be taken away and redistributed is also not an opinion)
- from a purely experience received for time spent perspective, I find the MPs to be one of the lower rewarding grinding methods
- I make no apologies for any of the above

Like many, I have died when I was near the KB only to return to see the KB awarded to someone else.
Like many, I have done the most damage only to see the KB awarded to someone else.
Like many, I have done what I thought was the KB only to find that when my current engagement ended, the MP was still active and the KB awarded to someone else.
All of those happen, it is just a game.
I don't get upset or stressed about it (or take the time to point it out) when it happens to me nor when it is the other way around.
Sryth is a hobby and I need my hobbies to be stress-reducing not stress-inducing.
And yes, I find the friendly competition with the other players aspect to be just one of the many enjoyable aspects of Sryth.

I do apologize if anyone is upset or offended by any of the above.
It is neither my intention to upset anyone nor my intention to offend anyone.


[I]Here's hoping you all are enjoying your Sryth time as much as I am enjoying mine,

DonMoody

[Oldschool]

Was there another post that I cannot now find? Or was this post previously longer?



Yes, I posted a second one and after proofing it realized it was a bit melodramatic so I deleted it.

[scout1idf]

@ Oldschool:

See what you started!!!! ;) (I read the other post before you deleted it)

@ TC and DM:

Back to your corners and take a breath.

Save the bloodshed for the upcoming goblins!!

I hope I didn't pi$$ anyone off, but d@mn, bury the hatchet in the goblins, not each other. And stop stealing the KB from others just to keep it from each other.

If I've overstepped, just say so and I'll leave, you two to your fighting.....


If an admin or mod thinks my comments are improper, go ahead and delete this post. Thanks.....

[Tetracapillactomist]

@ Oldschool:

See what you started!!!! ;) (I read the other post before you deleted it)

@ TC and DM:

Back to your corners and take a breath.

Save the bloodshed for the upcoming goblins!!

I hope I didn't pi$$ anyone off, but d@mn, bury the hatchet in the goblins, not each other. And stop stealing the KB from others just to keep it from each other.

If I've overstepped, just say so and I'll leave, you two to your fighting.....


If an admin or mod thinks my comments are improper, go ahead and delete this post. Thanks.....


Aww, are you kidding, Scout? What on earth could be considered improper or inappropriate about that?!...

No, you're right. :) Don't leave. I'm sorry.

I've taken a deep breath, someone else who's dear to me, talked some sense into me before, now you, it's all right. :)


Admins, mods: don't you dare delete Scout's post!... ;)
(Better yet, I'll quote it above, then save it... :) Thanks Scout. :))

[Doolipalally]

What Scout said.

[Tetracapillactomist]

All right, done. :) (I hope... For my part, I'll do my best. I hope I'm up to it... 'Down, boy, down!!!' :))

Three voices in my head now.

Oh, and my own, so four... And the adversary's, so one more. :)

Anyway, a kinda tacit, silent oath taken, a bit ill-defined, imprecise, and contradictory, but I'll try to work with it.
(I can see this will be a bit of a maze... Oh, no! More mazes!... ;-))

[edit] Up to at least six voices... :(

[Oldschool]

Nicely done all.

As for my response - blame Blackcrowe.

Theres no rule that says you have to feed your horse.

Why not just stop paying?

I haven't tried it yet myself but I doubt theres a mechanic introduced to make your mount die of malnutrition.

(And even if there is - we're Necromancers aren't we? Might be an uncomfortable ride but at least it'll be cheap).

Seems mount necromancy has heterogeneous (yep - Word of the Day's still "full" ;)) applications,

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHpNodE7sDYkQoQa5dCp4Br8Ys5lDfT IBxMgmVSer1IA3TY7X1

Just kidding and glad the ole nag's getting a rest. ;)

[Tetracapillactomist]

http://www.srythforum.com/picture.php?albumid=45&pictureid=459

:)

[Oldschool]

Take your pick,

The Ruins of Tarramyre in The Hart Hills
Battle rages in the ruins...

The Blustery Wood near Sageholt
Battle rages in a woodland clearing in the Blustery Wood...

The Copper Wood in Thanevale
Battle rages in Ildraria's lair...

Wurmwrit's Farm near Hawklor
Battle rages in Wurmwrit's prize pumpkin patch..

Tar Lake
Battle rages on the shores of Tar Lake...

[Elrond]

That, OS, is when we know that Lady Jemia is taking a nap! ;)

[Badstench]

That, OS, is when we know that Lady Jemia is taking a nap!
I laughed out loud.... Gods know Judge Fury seems to time his runs when no-one else is available to help, and often scores a solo. But Summermoon is never far away.

[Tetracapillactomist]

"Da bomb!" ;) WOMD... "Shock & Awe..."

(Apologies for the above 'cultural and political expletives.' :))

I simply meant to say "The Queen." Undisputed, I think. :)

[Elrond]

I laughed out loud.... Gods know Judge Fury seems to time his runs when no-one else is available to help, and often scores a solo. But Summermoon is never far away.

Lol ... His Honor hails from the NZ timezone! And if The Lady is never far away at that time; then she is truly an MP Queen!

[scout1idf]

Is it just my bad luck or is Talderus Redborn hitting a lot harder that he used to?

In my last battle with him, Scout took many 60 - 100 SP hits.

I didn't remember him hitting so hard in the past...

[shadowblack]

Just bad luck - recently none of the MP bosses have hit me all that hard (or all that often).

[Tetracapillactomist]

So I was right after all... he is a growing puppy...

No. don't recall him being that tough, Scout. Then again, I had one or maybe two battles... one, certainly - where I was slain over a dozen times.

Just bite the dust
whenever you must,
then hit back harder,
and make your blood lust
ring out much louder
borne on gale and gust!

[spencer]

Is it just my bad luck or is Talderus Redborn hitting a lot harder that he used to?

In my last battle with him, Scout took many 60 - 100 SP hits.

I didn't remember him hitting so hard in the past...

It must have been the bear grease that I applied to your armor on a dare from Oldschool that night at the Loch Leap when we all tilted a few too many :)

[psychoadept]

Is there ever such a thing as a multiplayer fight that doesn't get finished? I single-handedly did about 30% damage to Idraria the other day (as evidenced by the fact that I got my Iron Shards and am completing Vault of the Iron Dragon), yet when I went to collect my multiplayer rewards I only found rewards from my encounter with Xarakk, which was later.

[Doolipalally]

I think I once encountered a Talderus fight which mysteriously disappeared or didn't end. I thought at the time that the problem might have been caused by my fleeing at 1%, possibly after I'd theoretically struck the killing blow (I was solo at the time). I reported it to the GM but never heard back. That was quite a while ago, though.

[Tetracapillactomist]

Never encountered as such, but I assume there might be a time limit, which, once reached, cancels the ongoing event, and initialises a new one. Seems plausible, maybe even likely. Never encountered, never checked, never asked about it though.

[shadowblack]

If there is a limit, it's over 9 hours, as there have been MP battles that lasted over 8 hours before someone finished off the boss.

[Doolipalally]

It might even be longer than that - I've a feeling I've seen something around 11 hours.

[Tetracapillactomist]

I'm certain I've seen at least one event timed as having lasted in excess of 11 or even 12 hours, you're right.
Well, I'd expect the absolute limit might be 24 hours, but that's just a wild, unfounded guess.

[Doolipalally]

Got curious about this time issue (and I'm in a major procrastination mood) so I went back through the last year's worth of MP battle reports (figured any more would fry both my brain and my eyesight) to see what the longest reported battles had been. The results:

Tarramyre: 10 hours 16 minutes (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=58872&postcount=971)

Talderus: 13 hours 6 minutes (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=54540&postcount=959)

Pumpkin: 9 hours 15 minutes (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=60753&postcount=884)

Ildraria: 12 hours 11 minutes (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=54539&postcount=729)

Ulgror: 13 hours 5 minutes (http://www.srythforum.com/showpost.php?p=57488&postcount=511)


Ildraria in particular seemed to have quite a few reports of battles longer than 9 hours.

[Tetracapillactomist]

And so it's actually past 13 hours... Well, if there is a hard-set limit, we can assume it's 14 hours or more (unless it was reset since those events took place). So 24 hours seems plausible...

[scout1idf]

I think I once encountered a Talderus fight which mysteriously disappeared or didn't end. I thought at the time that the problem might have been caused by my fleeing at 1%, possibly after I'd theoretically struck the killing blow (I was solo at the time). I reported it to the GM but never heard back. That was quite a while ago, though.

A very long time ago, back in the old forum days, a group of us never received our rewards for a MP battle.

Back in those days, MP battles lasted only a short time, so it had nothing to do with a "time out".

I E-Mailed the GM as did others, but as far as I know, no one received a response or the reward.

If IIRC, it was one of my first KB's if not the first, so I was kinda upset about it.

[Blackcrowe]

I have a hunch.

Could it be that missing mp rewards are not tied in to the length of time a battle is open but instead are related to the length of time they lie unclaimed behind the blue door?

I have vague suspicions that on more than one occasion I've received no reward for an mp I've participated in after not stepping behind the blue door until a few days after the event. Could it be that the blue door holds a list of 'that days battles', or the last 48 hours battles or some such thing and if there are no battles in that current capture period at the time of checking in then there is no reward waiting for you.

I sincerely hope this is the case as I can then make it sound much more interesting by using the phrase 'I have discovered the location of a hidden time-window' and also possibly go on to write a paper that explains how neutrinos have been using this window to travel in excess of lightspeed at the OPERA project.

[Tetracapillactomist]

I doubt that would be the case.

For one thing, PA's situation doesn't seem to be one of a two-day delay or longer between the fight ending and the the attempt to claim the reward.

And am also thinking of the Quickstone: its rewards are held for how long? Different thing, yes, but related subject: rewards being stored till they're claimed, and in the same location and 'reward distribution centre' - the windowless blue-doored shack.

[texlaw1992]

One time (to my chagrin), I had fought Ildaria a few times and left when she was about 40%. I saved and logged off.

When I came on a few hours later, no xp!

I figured out that the game (at least sometimes) does not save partial MP completions. Rather, you have to be logged in when the fight finishes to get your xp rewards.

My guess is that's what happened here. While I haven't done MPs in a while, I never logged off after that without finishing what I started.

[psychoadept]

You may be on to something, but I strongly suspect "bug" over "feature."

[scout1idf]

One time (to my chagrin), I had fought Ildaria a few times and left when she was about 40%. I saved and logged off.

When I came on a few hours later, no xp!

I figured out that the game (at least sometimes) does not save partial MP completions. Rather, you have to be logged in when the fight finishes to get your xp rewards.

My guess is that's what happened here. While I haven't done MPs in a while, I never logged off after that without finishing what I started.

I don't think that's it because Scout has started several battles (3 or 4 rounds in each) then I logged off and went to bed. The next morning his rewards for the battles were waiting for him.

[Doolipalally]

One time (to my chagrin), I had fought Ildaria a few times and left when she was about 40%. I saved and logged off.

When I came on a few hours later, no xp!

I figured out that the game (at least sometimes) does not save partial MP completions. Rather, you have to be logged in when the fight finishes to get your xp rewards.

My guess is that's what happened here. While I haven't done MPs in a while, I never logged off after that without finishing what I started.


I think I've logged off with an MP still in progress and picked up a reward for it the next day, but I'm now not sure. I might try it deliberately and see what happens. It's quite often the case that I only have time for one quick wander round Tysa and can't stay to see things through.

[Young Ned]

The time limit on battles might be set to a fixed number of hours, but I'm wondering if perhaps it's based on what time the next battle is scheduled. That is, if one battle starts, and the next one is scheduled to start in 11 hours, then the game gives the battle 11 hours before stopping it and starting the next one. And if it has to be stopped like that, because no one finished off the opponent, then nobody gets a reward?

[Tetracapillactomist]

I thought of that, but there were several battles that lasted over 13 (!) hours, and yet it was still possible to finish them.

Which is telling, since I don't recall seeing an MP schedule that displayed an upcoming battle in 11 hours - definitely not in 12, 13, 14 hours. Usually I see numbers that go up to 7 hours.

Also, there were several instances in which players ended an MP event, only to have the next one go active right away, as soon as the previous was completed - it happened to me as well, at least once, in Tarramyre. And the probability of ending an event, repeatedly at that, right 'on the dot,' at the very moment the next one is supposed to start, is very low. Although if the event is tracked and registers as 'currently active,' arguably that could cancel termination of the event, whereas one that registers as 'inactive for x hour(s) xx minute(s)' could conceivably trigger automatic termination.

Ultimately, I think they may be set up to terminate automatically with a very generous leeway (24 hours was my guess, but it may even be more than that - or slightly less, say 18 or 20 hours), because otherwise we'd have heard much more, and louder grumbling from players who invested 10, 30, 40 minutes into such a fight, without reaching the end, who would then log in the next day only to find no reward for those minutes, now wasted.

And then there are... well, the occasional glitches. Can't ignore that possibility, they do occur even with the most pristine and faultless coding, and in spite of the best intentions.
(Heh, come to think of it, we'll steer clear of 'best intentions' for now. ;) And: oops! More rambling?...)

[psychoadept]

What's the deal with multiplayers and Battle Rage? It seems like sometimes I don't get my extra damage on 20s, but sometimes I do? Or am I imagining things?

[Oldschool]

PA are you using powers during combat in the mps? That's the only thing I can think of right off.

My latest communication to the GM and his speedy response:

Hello again_

As always_ thanks for everything that you do. It is much appreciated. I do have a question regarding the MPS battle damage a different character can do. I have noticed a lot on my primary character lately_ Spencer Lionking_ that during multi_player battles_ he almost never gets the bonus for an especially strong blow _i.e 83 points_ with a 20__ he almost always gets 39_ and as such_ my total for each round is a good bit lower than a lot of other players. Is there some randomness to all of this or am I just being especially unlucky?

Thanks in advance_


Spencer Lionking

Here is the response:

Hi, thanks as always for playing and for supporting Sryth!

In the multiplayer scenarios, using only melee attacks (no magical powers, etc.) will (after a certain number of consecutive rounds) allow for the chance of scoring major damage against the enemy. The consecutive rounds of melee attacks are carried over from fight to fight against the multiplayer enemies.

The current number to reach is 40 consecutive rounds of melee-only attacks. Once this number has been reached, you will have the chance to score the larger damage amounts as you will begin to spot openings in your enemy's defenses.

Once you've reached 40 consecutive rounds, you will always have the chance to score the larger damage amounts, until you use a magical power.

If a magical power is used in the multiplayer combats, you will need to fight 70 consecutive rounds of combat before you again have the chance to score the larger damage amounts.

Let me know if this helps, and if you have any questions or would like any additional info on anything. Let me know if you find your character able to score the larger damage totals.

As always, all the best, and thanks for supporting Sryth!





Which, of course, makes total sense. I was using Restoration intermittently and probably will not be doing that anymore. This may have been addressed previously, but it had been awhile if it had and hopefully this information will be helpful to someone else besides me.

[Young Ned]

The ones you get by spotting a hole in your opponent's defenses are the "devastating attacks", which are unconnected with Battle Rage as far as I know. You get Battle Rage from Tarlaro's Elixirs, and it shows during the battle as your character feeling "Uncontrollable rage".

(Which is sort of amusing when you're in the middle of a subdue fight -- if the rage is so uncontrollable, why doesn't it make you switch to trying to kill the opponent instead of merely subdue them? :))

[Tetracapillactomist]

(Which is sort of amusing when you're in the middle of a subdue fight -- if the rage is so uncontrollable, why doesn't it make you switch to trying to kill the opponent instead of merely subdue them? :))

That's cos of the Code of the Knights... Who Say Ni (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTQfGd3G6dg&feature=related)

HA! HA-HA... HA-HA-HA... &c.

"NI! NI-NI!"

"Oh, what sad times are these, when passing ruffians can say NI! at will to old ladies! There is a pestilence on this land! Nothing is sacred!
I am a shrubber! My name is Roger the shrubber!" :D

NI! NI-NI-NI-NI-NI!

(That'll learn you to question the Code of the Knights Who Say NI!... :))

[psychoadept]

Oh, I see. I must either not have reached the right number of rounds, or I used Restoration or something in the meantime...

[Oldschool]

Just to clarify PA the penalty or bonus (depending on one's view ;)) only applies to powers used during combat so if you used restoration out of the combat screen it shouldn't affect you.

[scout1idf]

Special Multiplayer Scenario Experience Bonuses

The Massive Pumpkin Beast

XP +421 You've been awarded a total of 421 Experience...
421 xp applied to general...

ITEM You've acquired: Battle Marker [ view ]

The Great Dragon - Ildraria

XP +2,400 You've been awarded a total of 2,400 Experience...
2,400 xp applied to general...


You've been awarded a rare and valuable Battle Marker! Be sure to SAVE YOUR GAME right away!

Does anyone besides me see a problem with getting 1 BM for 421xp worth of damage and 0 BM's for 2400xp damage??

Really makes randomness suck.....

[Blackcrowe]

I'm pretty sure its not exactly random. I strongly suspect lower amounts of xp gained have a larger chance of generating BMs.

[Young Ned]

I'm pretty sure its not exactly random. I strongly suspect lower amounts of xp gained have a larger chance of generating BMs.
Hmm... As a sort of consolation prize for not getting much XP?

[Blackcrowe]

Yes. Pretty much.

Of course I have no real factual evidence to base this on - just observations from results with my characters. Maybe its worth putting in as a future question to the GM or if anyones interested enough in my theory I'll volunteer to collate some info if people want to PM their xp and BM yield in the various MPs.:)

[scout1idf]

I'm pretty certain that they are random.

Scout's gotten top damage and the killing blow and received 8 BM's before.


It just seems to me that there should be some kind of scale of reward/damage vs BM's.

Of course that wouldn't work on some MP's where enough people are fighting (:rolleyes:) that the top damage is only in the 5000 to 7000 range. That would put them in the middle of the scale (the one in my head that is) so the most awarded would be 3 BM's to 5 BM's and no one would get 8 for the top damage.

But hey, I'll take 4 BM's for top damage over 0.....


All this talk about BM's, I better go.... :eek::D

[Doolipalally]

It just seems to me that there should be some kind of scale of reward/damage vs BM's.

Well, maybe. On the other hand, the God of Randomness has had his influence on this game for a long time now, and somehow I can't see him relinquishing his power any time soon.

OK, I admit it. I like getting a BM or two just for doing a BOG and run. And if it was fair, it just wouldn't be the same :)

[Young Ned]

Well, it IS fair... in the sense that it's equally unfair to everyone. :cool:

[psychoadept]

It's a known thing that it's possible to sustain enough damage to kill you, but be forced to retreat instead in a multiplayer, right?

[Blackcrowe]

Affirmative. If, in the round that you are being 'kicked out' of combat you also sustain an injury that would usually kill you then you leave the combat intact but with a negative SP amount showing. Of course, as you heal after a combat you find yourself in positive SP on the next screen.

I'm curious to see what would happen if you entered the fight on very low SP and were taken into the red on your final round but you didn't naturally heal enough to take you back into the black. Would you be dead by the next screen even though you left the combat alive(ish), or would you be still alive and continue to wander round Sryth even with your neg SP until the next change to your SP kicked in to kill you/put you back in the black.

(Or would you, as I secretly suspect, have broken the natural lows of the universe and spend eternity in the half-life of a Wraith in some sort of pseudo-Nazgul fashion but without going to all that trouble of wearing a Ring of Power for a few centuries first).

[psychoadept]

An interesting conundrum. And unlikely, but not impossible. One could probably make that happen by repeatedly entering MP battles with very low SP.

[Young Ned]

I'm curious to see what would happen if you entered the fight on very low SP and were taken into the red on your final round but you didn't naturally heal enough to take you back into the black. Would you be dead by the next screen even though you left the combat alive(ish), or would you be still alive and continue to wander round Sryth even with your neg SP until the next change to your SP kicked in to kill you/put you back in the black.
Interesting question! Now I'm curious, too.

(Or would you, as I secretly suspect, have broken the natural lows of the universe and spend eternity in the half-life of a Wraith in some sort of pseudo-Nazgul fashion but without going to all that trouble of wearing a Ring of Power for a few centuries first).
Haha, amusing but unlikely. :D There don't seem to be any wraiths in Sryth, except ones that come out of the Neverness. Undead humans only seem to come in two varieties here: ghouls, which are animated corpses that still have some flesh on them, and skeletons, which are animated corpses from which all the flesh has rotted off. So really the same thing, just in different stages of decomposition.

(I'm not sure why Lord Creyn still has so much flesh left when he's been dead for 700 years -- they must have used a high-quality embalming fluid whose recipe has been lost to time!)

Oh, and we have seen a few ghosts, too, but those aren't the same as wraiths in the Tolkien sense.

[scout1idf]

After the killing blow rewards are removed, I wonder who will strike final rewarded Killing blow?

I hope it is someone from the forum, and if you do, don't hesitate to post it in the Milestones thread as a significant milestone in the game and a double post in the Shameless Bragging for yourself.

Now the waiting begins continues.......

[Tetracapillactomist]

(Heh, you mean continues?)

[edit] Hehe Saw your edit... XD
OK, might as well add this, while I'm at it: http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angry021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

:D

[Tetracapillactomist]

"Issue" or not:

The Ruins of Tarramyre in The Hart Hills
All seems peaceful in the ancient ruins...
...5 hour(s) and 0 minute(s) remain...

The Blustery Wood near Sageholt
All is peaceful in the Blustery Wood...
...5 hour(s) and 10 minute(s) remain...

The Copper Wood in Thanevale
There is currently no sign of the great dragon in the Copper Wood...
...5 hour(s) and 25 minute(s) remain...

Wurmwrit's Farm near Hawklor
All is peaceful on Wurmwrit's Farm...
...5 hour(s) and 0 minute(s) remain...

Tar Lake
There is currently no sign of Ulgror ...
...5 hour(s) and 15 minute(s) remain...

[Oldschool]

First let's get this outta the way, *DEJINX*

Now that that is outta the way....

A this is not aimed at anyone in particular and a putting it in perspective and if you can't laugh/smile...... is in order as well.

Anyhoo (edited by me)..........

I just got this reply back from the GM.........................
........The entire multiplayer combat system is due for an overhaul, much
of which is already completed and being tested. Some of the things you mentioned
(the killing blow, for example) have been addressed in the new system................
.................................................. .................................................. .
.....................The killing blow has been eliminated..................
.................................................. .................................................. ......
.................................................. ...The first multiplayer scenario to be run by
the new system will be the Oakenking scenario. The new system will be tested
and put into place with the new scenario once other pending content has been
put live. Eventually, all multiplayer combats will be run by the new system.........
................


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmX4X04cVZg

Vote for Sryth - please and thank you.

[Ankhmahor]

So I was looking for a black 5 ball for dejinxing and possibly humorous purposes to add to my post and thoughts. Somehow I found THIS (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kfT9lg1WD0Q/TOaRVvDWkNI/AAAAAAAAAk0/UISDF_NK8hg/s1600/%255BAllCDCovers%255D_impaled_nazarene_ugra_karma_ 2001_retail_cd-front.jpg) among all of the rest of unrelated images and bowling balls. =)

And now I forgot what I was actually thinking of replying. Memory does not serve well today. *sigh*

PS I'll go wack the vegetables and see how many hours remain. Time for testing!
PPS Now I remember why I hate pumpkins...

PPPS Got sidetracked by some forks. But it does seem like all of them are around 5 hours now.

[Tetracapillactomist]

(Haha, "distracted by some forks" indeed :D - Ankh, at least you'll have a full set of cutlery, at this rate: money saved at IKEA... ;) :D)

First let's get this outta the way, *DEJINX*

Now that that is outta the way....

The entire multiplayer combat system is due for an overhaul, much
of which is already completed and being tested. Some of the things you mentioned
(the killing blow, for example) have been addressed in the new system................
.................................................. .................................................. .
.....................The killing blow has been eliminated.

Yes. Well, why not reinforce that positive energy - I can also confirm that, on a whim, just to give it more clout, or emphasis, or whatever.

from Sryth Gamemaster gamemaster@sryth.com
reply-to gamemaster@sryth.com
to
date 15 January 2012 22:44
subject Re: UPDATE (and more)

With regard to the killing blow issue with the cooperative combats, I
can only say that I agree with what you've said and that the new
cooperative combat system will address the issue. Killing blows are not
part of the new system, which features a number of changes/improvements
over the current system.