No More Gold 4 training !!!

[billydakid]

I wrote the Gm last Night asking if he could possibly remove the cost for training and he has. Here is the response he gave. Thank you Gm on the behalf of all the players.

Hi, thanks for writing and thanks for the thoughtful feedback. The cost
in gold for training skills/powers has been removed. You're right that
with the implementation of the gold cap, the cost to train them would be
prohibitive at the higher levels.

The gold cost for training was originally implemented as a way of
combating excess gold, but the gold cap has served to address the issue
of runaway gold totals, etc.

Thanks again for the feedback/suggestion. Please let me know if you
discover any issues with the removal of the gold cost for training. I've
tested it out and it looks to be working, but let me know if you find
anything.

As always, all the best!

[shadowblack]

Yay!!!

[spencer]

That is good news....thanks very much. Have a rep :)

[Daffanka]

Awesome. Rep well deserved. :)

[Doolipalally]

It'll be interesting to see how the GM decides to use the concept of gold from now on. With the training cost gone, the only regular use for gold is the tiny sum you pay to be nice to your horse now and again - and that's become less common for anybody with a residence.

Then there's the AT refund fee at Tallys', but that's been reduced recently, and I would guess for most of us isn't a frequent charge.

So what is gold going to be for?

There was a hint at more gold raffles, but the GM presumably won't give up the concept of AT raffles because of the boost to donations.

Improvements to residences looks to be one area where gold could come in handy, but I'd be surprised if that was the only use. I wonder what else is in store.

[shadowblack]

Let's not forget the Blessings. And there's also the occasional chance to buy something in exchange for gold (though usually accompanied by an AT cost).

[Daffanka]

I wouldn't be surprised if residences became a major gold drain. Not just refurbishments but personal trainers (pay gold, either every time or a flat weekly fee, for 10% off training costs), a fence, a steady supply of kepbekk, a stable, a challenge room etc. etc.

Given how cheap residences are and how they most certainly pay off their cost in XP and items, I don't think you'd be too far out to think that most people in the game would have them at a certain point. So I'd really like to see them getting worked on a lot.

[Doolipalally]

Let's not forget the Blessings. And there's also the occasional chance to buy something in exchange for gold (though usually accompanied by an AT cost).

True, I'd forgotten the BoPs. Been a long time since I bought one!

I wouldn't be surprised if residences became a major gold drain. Not just refurbishments but personal trainers (pay gold, either every time or a flat weekly fee, for 10% off training costs), a fence, a steady supply of kepbekk, a stable, a challenge room etc. etc.

Given how cheap residences are and how they most certainly pay off their cost in XP and items, I don't think you'd be too far out to think that most people in the game would have them at a certain point. So I'd really like to see them getting worked on a lot.

Me too, and there's definitely a lot of potential.

[thingirl]

Yay!!! (Goes to spend all of her General XP.)

[psychoadept]

I'm not sure why the cap makes training costs prohibitive. Can somebody explain?

[thingirl]

How much gold do you have? It's because some of us don't have that much gold. Or others want to hoard it. And it can get expensive at higher levels.

[psychoadept]

How much gold do you have? It's because some of us don't have that much gold. Or others want to hoard it. And it can get expensive at higher levels.

But none of that really has to do with the cap. They've always been the case.

[thingirl]

You asked why the cost was off-putting. I didn't say I was explaining the cap.

[psychoadept]

You asked why the cost was off-putting. I didn't say I was explaining the cap.

I've edited my post for clarity.

[thingirl]

Well, I think it's because some people like to hoard their XP and "blitz train", level up by 10 or so levels at once. At high levels, this used to cost more than a million.

[shadowblack]

I'm not sure why the cap makes training costs prohibitive. Can somebody explain?
I have over 6 million general exp. It would have cost me over 1 million gold to use it all, meaning I would not be able to use it all at once. After all of my hard work earning that much exp why, exactly, should I be prohibited from using it as I want and when I want?

[Doolipalally]

Well, I think it's because some people like to hoard their XP and "blitz train", level up by 10 or so levels at once. At high levels, this used to cost more than a million.

Could be, but that's just an option. If the cost of levelling up one level at a time would be prohibitive (and the GM's email above doesn't say anything about blitz levelling) then I'd be interested to know how much it does cost at the highest levels. I'm trying to get all my powers to 80, and prior to today that was costing me something in the region of 4,500 a level, which is only two or three runs through Axepath or Yir-Tanon.

[shadowblack]

Could be, but that's just an option. If the cost of levelling up one level at a time would be prohibitive (and the GM's email above doesn't say anything about blitz levelling) then I'd be interested to know how much it does cost at the highest levels. I'm trying to get all my powers to 80, and prior to today that was costing me something in the region of 4,500 a level, which is only two or three runs through Axepath or Yir-Tanon.
Download the XP Calculator and check it out for yourself, in accordance with your exp bonuses. I'll just point out that the higher levels cost tens of thousands of experience...

[Doolipalally]

I have over 6 million general exp. It would have cost me over 1 million gold to use it all, meaning I would not be able to use it all at once. After all of my hard work earning that much exp why, exactly, should I be prohibited from using it as I want and when I want?

No offence, but this is a game and you don't make the rules. If you happen to want to do something which doesn't fit with how the GM envisages levelling up should work, then there's a chance you won't be able to.

On another note, I've always been curious about why anyone would want to hoard that much general xp anyway instead of using it to level up. Is it just for the satisfied feeling of looking at a very big number? :)

[Doolipalally]

Download the XP Calculator and check it out for yourself, in accordance with your exp bonuses. I'll just point out that the higher levels cost tens of thousands of experience...

I was talking about gold, before the training cost was abolished, not xp.

[thingirl]

On another note, I've always been curious about why anyone would want to hoard that much general xp anyway instead of using it to level up. Is it just for the satisfied feeling of looking at a very big number? :)

Thank you Dooli! With the gold cost removed, Alanne is back under 1k general XP, where I somehow mange to keep her.

[Joddelle]

At higher levels, gold training costs were 20% of XP
So a million-gold cap would have allowed you to spend 5 million xp in one blitz.

And if you grind and do pickups of just the obviously high-end items, gold accumulates faster than xp (about twice as fast as gen+as&p)

Edit: oh - and awesome way to be proactive billy! I'd rep you but it won't let me. I'll get back to you later

[shadowblack]

On another note, I've always been curious about why anyone would want to hoard that much general xp anyway instead of using it to level up. Is it just for the satisfied feeling of looking at a very big number? :)
It's because I don't like limiting myself. With so much exp I can level any power to level 100 (though that's not a good idea due to the specific exp I won't be able to use afterward) and any new item that requires leveling. This way if I decide I need a skill or power at a certain level I can get it without having to wait and grind.

And the gold cost was a percentage of the exp cost. So the higher the exp cost - the higher the gold cost. I'm not sure if it was 20% or 25% of the exp cost, but either way the gold cost also got very high at some point. For example, if you wanted to spend 10'000'000 and the gold cost was 20% of that exp, then it would mean spending 2'000'000 gold. That's a lot of gold, especially with a cap of 1'000'000!

I type way too slow...

[Young Ned]

I type way too slow...

To quote someone in another thread: "Two words: Mavis Beacon." :)

[Doolipalally]

It's because I don't like limiting myself. With so much exp I can level any power to level 100 (though that's not a good idea due to the specific exp I won't be able to use afterward) and any new item that requires leveling. This way if I decide I need a skill or power at a certain level I can get it without having to wait and grind.

And the gold cost was a percentage of the exp cost. So the higher the exp cost - the higher the gold cost. I'm not sure if it was 20% or 25% of the exp cost, but either way the gold cost also got very high at some point. For example, if you wanted to spend 10'000'000 and the gold cost was 20% of that exp, then it would mean spending 2'000'000 gold. That's a lot of gold, especially with a cap of 1'000'000!

I type way too slow...

As you can see above, I type way too slow too!

It's fascinating the different ways people approach this game. I don't like feeling limited either, but for me, what makes me feel constrained is the thought that I can't spend my xp as I get it, for fear that I might want to suddenly go up ten levels in the future. I sit on 100,000 general xp so I know I can level up items as soon as I get them, but I'd get very frustrated if I felt I needed a larger pot for emergency power- or skill-levelling.

EDIT: @Ned - I tried that once. Actually, my typing itself isn't too bad but I tend to go back and re-jig what I'm choosing to say.

[Young Ned]

Oh, yes, I understand completely. Typing takes a lot less time than thinking. And re-thinking. And editing and re-editing... :cool:

[billydakid]

Psycho the cap made training much more diffacult esp for those of us who didn't have the kind of money the havics and Joddalles have. with the cap your only getting a million gold tokens. Although a million gold may seem like a lot it really isn't as far as training is concerned. last week I trained my skills and powers just what I had in the skills and powers banks and I had over a hundred k xp in each bank it cost me over 700k just to train that Now I had a little money over the cap at that time about 1.3 mil or so and for myself as well as others training skills in the 90's and high 80's is very costly.Not to mention I think it makes it very hard on the noobs. when your saving and holding stats xp that myself and others have worked very hard to get with the mil cap and having to use your gold to train with the gold goes very quickly. therefore since everyone is limmited to a million gold now you know how much one player can have at one time so its not like we can build our fortunes up. Now since i've trained up that 700k worth I've gotten other skills and powers to train up in my indivual banks and because it costed so much gold to train I wasn't making any gold it was staying pretty much the same. I'd make a little cash then boom have to use it to train. If we still had to pay for training we would have to train very slowly. I have over 2 mil in general xp but with the prices to train my lvls I couldn't train much for a long time because of the cost to train. You don't want to go broke training and you always want a certain amount of gold in your bank for when things come up to pay gold for. basically paying to train would take you forever to lvl up esp for those who really grind to so they can move up. Now if we didn't have the cap and could make how much gold you want to make then the paying for training wasn't as bad but with a cap again it's very costly. Hope that helps psycho.

[Hastifer]

And here I thought I'd 'discovered' a feature the GM randomly changed.

Thanks and rep'd for the suggestion.

Time to hit the wiki

[Hastifer]

Time to hit the wiki

Someone ninja'd me on that one, too. Dang.

[billydakid]

psycho we never used to have to pay to train until the gm decided to much money was being made. As I pointed out earlier and as shaddow has done training costs are a lot at higher lvls and with the cap there is no reason to have a training cost so it's just back to what it used to be for training earning our xp. Heck I could have a lot more gold if I didn't have to use it for training see my over 700k in gold post for training above. oh and if I could have been game rich like havic and Joddalle yeah i'd want to be if i can even its only a game. Heck i'll only be rich in a game lol.

[billydakid]

I save my general xp for much the same reason as shaddow. If in need to train a skill or power quickly I know its there. If the gm adds an item like the bob I have the experience to train it to the max lvl and get its full benifits. As shaddow says we work our butts off to grind we should be able to train it when we wish.

[thingirl]

I had to restrain myself to have enough XP to level up the GIS and BoB. I have about 300 General XP.

[Oldschool]

I wrote the Gm last Night asking if he could possibly remove the cost for training and he has. Here is the response he gave. Thank you Gm on the behalf of all the players.


Nice Billy - have another rep for taking the initiative to query the GM and kudos to the GM.

Regarding the gold cost training debate, which incidentally I can see the reason for abolishing it from both ends. Hawk while slightly above the cap hoards xp for blitz leveling therefore the gold cost could be prohibitive. The secondaries see limited play, mostly new content and therefore have little gold to train at higher levels. Plus every now and then we get the chance to spend in the 50k range for quest items. Grinding for xp is one thing, grinding for gold to access training or to pursue a character development line is another altogether.

Either way the GM put it rather nicely I think.

I wrote the Gm last Night..... Here is the response he gave.

The gold cost for training was originally implemented as a way of
combating excess gold, but the gold cap has served to address the issue
of runaway gold totals, etc.



NOW if we could just get those caps at the Grey Circle lifted and a sister training program at the AC for skills......... :D

[smv1973]

Could be, but that's just an option. If the cost of levelling up one level at a time would be prohibitive (and the GM's email above doesn't say anything about blitz levelling) then I'd be interested to know how much it does cost at the highest levels. I'm trying to get all my powers to 80, and prior to today that was costing me something in the region of 4,500 a level, which is only two or three runs through Axepath or Yir-Tanon.

The cost to train my powers that are in the mid to upper 80's used to cost me 7,200 gold per level. To train my powers that I have in the 90's used to cost me 9,600 gold per level.

[Doolipalally]

The cost to train my powers that are in the mid to upper 80's used to cost me 7,200 gold per level. To train my powers that I have in the 90's used to cost me 9,600 gold per level.

Thanks, smv - good to know what I won't be spending!:)

[thingirl]

Same here.

[Joddelle]

training a power up to 90 from 89 cost 9600 gold at a 25% bonus
training a power up to 90 from 89 cost 8960 gold at a 30% bonus

training a power up to 95 from 94 cost 14400 gold at a 25% bonus
training a power up to 95 from 94 cost 13440 gold at a 30% bonus

training a power up to 100 from 99 cost 19200 gold at a 25% bonus
training a power up to 100 from 99 cost 17920 gold at a 30% bonus

[thingirl]

Wow. Me no have gold. But, I'm also in the 70-80 range in both s&p.

[zmflavius]

I'm a bit late but...YAY!!!!!!

[Elrond]

Awesome news Billy! Duly repped for it; and you deserve many, many more repps.

Getting into the general xp hoard discussion, imagine the GM implementing a general xp cap! Lol .... I would love it!

[Joddelle]

Getting into the general xp hoard discussion, imagine the GM implementing a general xp cap! Lol .... I would love it!
Resist... urge... strangle... Elrond!

[zmflavius]

Resist... urge... strangle... Elrond!

hey it was just an offhand remark...

[Elrond]

Resist... urge... strangle... Elrond!

I'm a legendary unarmed fighter; that won't be easy :p

And I would put the cap at 999,999 general xp!

[racey]

I'm a legendary unarmed fighter; that won't be easy :p



Not if some of us other hoarders lend a hand or two.

[Joddelle]

I'm a legendary unarmed fighter
Me too!
And I was trying to be funny there, though I do oppose a gen XP cap.
I even repped ya!

[Elrond]

Me too!
And I was trying to be funny there, though I do oppose a gen XP cap.
I even repped ya!

Don't worry, I was on the same page; and I was (role)playing along ;) . And thanks for the repp! I've sent you a deserved repp back (50% value due to my inferior repp worth)!

[Joddelle]

hehe, thanks.
I was pretty sure you got it Elrond, but zm seemed a bit seriousishishishly seeming. Sorta.

[zmflavius]

I was always rping. Not that I care, I have around 13k general xp right now.

[thingirl]

That's a lot more than me. In fact, if he introduces a gen. XP cap, I would be WAAAAAAY under it.

[billydakid]

parrish the thought people of a gen xp cap. don't give him any ideas. lol. I like my hoarding of gen xp lol.

[racey]

9/8/09 - Removal of Gold Cost for Training
In response to a thoughtful bit of feedback from an illustrious adventurer, and with the gold cap set to go into effect on Thursday (9/10) ,there is no longer a cost in gold for training skills and powers.

[zmflavius]

But what will happen to excess gold over the limit...Will it be deleted?

[Daffanka]

You just won't be able to get any more gold.

[Joddelle]

No.

[psychoadept]

Getting into the general xp hoard discussion, imagine the GM implementing a general xp cap!

Kidding aside, that would seriously mess with the rankings, as various people (*coughshadowblackcough*) divested themselves of excess XP... Would probably leave us with a much more accurate account of who's done the most grinding.

[Badstench]

Bah Humbug!

Gold caps, no training fees, inferior items made invisible, no gold storage, silly trinkets...

The economy's up and turned to poo!
What's a thrifty man supposed to do?
What's a life without dreams of wealth?
It's time to position my sword on the shelf,
For all the good it will do me now!

I could kill all the monsters that inhabit the world,
But I can't gain their treasure, that's a sucker's reward
I was tempted to swapping all my money for bling,
On the shelf by the sword I'll position that ring,
For all the good it will do me now!

[Oldschool]

Nicely done Badstench and definitely worthy of a rep or two. :)

[thingirl]

By the standards of me, that is worth a repp or three.

[spencer]

To quote someone in another thread: "Two words: Mavis Beacon." :)


Can't resist...that's ok, I read very slowly.

[spencer]

Someone ninja'd me on that one, too. Dang.

Don't you mean someone gazumped you?

[thingirl]

Both are good.

[Hastifer]

Don't you mean someone gazumped you?

if gazumped means I thought they ninja'd me but they really didn't, then yes. :)

[Doolipalally]

Has anyone noticed the gold cap being active yet? Rhia's got more than a million but is still accumulating.

[smv1973]

Has anyone noticed the gold cap being active yet? Rhia's got more than a million but is still accumulating.

The gold cap is active now. I get this message when gold shows up.


Your total gold is already at the maximum allowable amount (1,000,000).

[Doolipalally]

The gold cap is active now. I get this message when gold shows up.


Your total gold is already at the maximum allowable amount (1,000,000).

Thanks, smv. (I realised after I posted this that there was a more appropriate thread.)