Starting Chars and Stats

[Tazar Yoot]

This might be one of those things that are just excepted for what they are and can't really be altered at this point. But I guess I find the fact that a majority of people just roll there characters with all 20s and 19s for stats. I can't help but feel it's that it's not really the way the game was intended. What if stats were attributed and couldn't be rolled to max out all stats.

What I'm trying to say is that there would be X stat points to be distributed and you would have to pick your strenghts and weaknesses. Like I said it might be too late to do anything about this mechanic at this point but I'm curious how other people feel about rolling characters that are so maxxed out to begin with?

Also has the option of raising stats with exp or AT ever been considered? I guess I just feel like some items stats are
wasted when a majority of the characters are rolled with all starting stats so high, items with +5 luck (or whatever) seem wasted and unimpressive.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

[Young Ned]

I guess I just feel like some items stats are wasted when a majority of the characters are rolled with all starting stats so high, items with +5 luck (or whatever) seem wasted and unimpressive.

The GM has hinted in the past that it may become possible to have stats higher than 20, in which case all those items with +5 luck or +6 might or whatever will become much more useful.

Still in the painful process of learning to love my Granite Key...

Great sig... have a rep for the chuckle. :cool:

[scout1idf]

Originally Posted by Tazar Yoot http://srythforum.com/images_sryth/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://srythforum.com/showthread.php?p=13849#post13849)
Still in the painful process of learning to love my Granite Key...


It makes a great nut cracker.......

[Young Ned]

Which is why most guys carry it in their backpack rather than their pockets... ;)

[Tazar Yoot]

In this very dedicate point in my and Granite Key's relationship I find that carrying him in my hand gives us te most face to face
time to learn to appreciate each other.

But back to the topic at hand I guess I just can't shake the feeling that character creation is a bit flawed in it's current state but I guess that
doesn't really seem to be a general consensus. I'm just looking for some insight as to why it doesn't bother most people? I understand the desire to get all 19s and 20s because of the exp boost and the
need to get a starting power, to me it feels like those things might be a part of the problem. What if that starting power was included by defaunt regardless
of starting stats or the exp boost could be aquired without too much difficulty thoughout actual gameplay?

[wetheril]

So...I'm wondering why you think it's a problem. Even with 19's and 20's, and perfect stats, you won't always pass a roll. Some of the checks in the game make sure you'll NEVER guarantee to pass a roll regardless of how high your stats are. This can be challenging enough in a do-or-die situation, especially for a PG where ATs are on the line.

Are you bothered by all 19's and 20's because you think it unbalances the game, because I for one, don't think so.

Edit: There are actually pre-generated (http://sryth.wikia.com/wiki/Pre-Generated) characters you can use and they don't have maxed stats. Some of them even come with their own unique weapons and items that you can't get anywhere else in the game. I guess, what I'm trying to say is: there is an option out there for people who don't want to play with perfect stats. But, I'm not for limiting how people should play the game. If you want to roll the highest stats possible, and the game allows that--I don't see how that is any way breaking the game.

[Tazar Yoot]

It doesn't bother me for balance purposes at all and I was even looking for suggestions to keep the balance in place. What
bothered me I guess was the fact that it doesn't feel the way charcter gen was intended. If character generation intended on characters being rolled with such maxxed out stats what would be the point of "rolling" a character? Why doesn't the character generator just show you characters with stats of 19 or 20 across the board and let you pick one? I feel like the individuality of rolling up a new character is lost when the ability to reroll until
you have a character with the best stats available across the board. In many other games I've played it's very common to pick a class or a niche your good at some things but not so much at other things. And then of course there's the Jack of all trades master of none type class like te bard or something, but here in this case it feels like every character is a master of all trades Jack of none (if you catch what I'm trying to say). I know there's no classes in the game and even having 20s across the board doesn't make the game trivial, but for that reason I was thinking up ways to still lv up weak stats through gameplay or with exp so you could still get the master of all trades but
instead by earning it though gameplay and items as opposed to starting off with it.

Hopefully this makes sense I'm by no means saying "change
the game" I'm just throwing out my two cents to try and understand the concept.

[Oldschool]

It makes a great nut cracker.......

H@ll..... I thought that was what better halfs were for - as he hurriedly types while glancing nervously about. :cool:

[smv1973]

There are many players who's characters don't have all 19 and 20 for stats. Why do you seem to be so worried about the way characters are generated? There is an item in the game that does give one stat a permanent boost of +2 to a stat 18 and under. It will give a stat with a 19 a +1 boost.

Also the GM was working on elixirs (on hold now) that we would be able to buy and there may be one that could give a stat or stats a boost.

[Tazar Yoot]

I'm not worried about what other players are doing that makes me sound like a police man or something. I was just commenting on the games actual design choice I guess. I seem to be in the minority on this which is fine I was just questioning and trying to get some opinions on it, I appreciate the feedback. I tend to like to get into the actual game design and balance issues when I play, it's just a habit I have I guess. I don't mean to step on anyones toes.

[wetheril]

There are a lot of design choices with Sryth that are unique to other games. Aside from being able to roll stats that are all 19's and 20's, have you wondered why you can find some very difficult quests in the same region that you can find some really easy quests? And that there is no warning sign that stops you from entering a quest that could be way out of your league? Or for that matter, that there is no clear linear storyline from the beginning that tells you: this is where you need to start--this is where you can go. When you think about, Sryth gives a LOT of room to mess up with this game. Why did the GM do this?

But, I'm not bothered by any of this. Part of that is because the game is single-player focused. Unlike many other online games that have a pvp component, Sryth's is completely limited, and players are never in direct competition with each other. I think that's one of the main reasons why rolled stats of any type, and lack of class diversification work in this game.

[texlaw1992]

I think I rolled over 100 times and never got all 19s and 20s. Someone should let me in on the secret.

[scout1idf]

........Unlike many other online games that have a pvp component, Sryth's is completely limited, and players are never in direct competition with each other.........

Except on the forum. :D


i think i rolled over 100 times and never got all 19s and 20s. Someone should let me in on the secret.

luck

[thingirl]

........Unlike many other online games that have a pvp component, Sryth's is completely limited, and players are never in direct competition with each other.........

Except on the forum. :D

Yes, but except for me and Elrond, most people don't actually fight. ;)

[Young Ned]

You and Elrond don't even fight, you just bicker...

[shadowblack]

I'm one of those who think the current character generation is pointless for one very simple reason: There are no pros for low stats and no cons for high stats. So most people try to get stats that are as high as possible. The way things are now the GM might as well allows us to pick the stats we want and save us the trouble of re-rolling.

[thingirl]

He'd have to put a cap on how many 20s though...

[shadowblack]

Wwhy? Currently it IS possible to get all 20s by re-rolling. Good thing most people don't have the patience to do so...

[thingirl]

It is??? Ehh, I'm fine with straight 19s. 25% across the board is nice ;) Anyway, he'd probably still have to, because then everybody would have all 20s and a 30% bonus. Or, he could make in an AG only option, though I don't know how it would have a barring on things...

[psychoadept]

I'm one of those who think the current character generation is pointless for one very simple reason: There are no pros for low stats and no cons for high stats. So most people try to get stats that are as high as possible. The way things are now the GM might as well allows us to pick the stats we want and save us the trouble of re-rolling.

Yes, this. It's like the original Baldur's Gate game. I just rolled and rolled and rolled until I could max out all but one of my stats. I much prefer games where you buys stats with points.

[Tazar Yoot]

This is what I've been trying to touch on. In the current state there's nothing stopping people from rerolling all day till they get the perfect stats, but
if you had to buy your stats or only had a set number of rerolls, stats might feel a bit more earned and meaningful as opposed to trivial. In my opinion it would add a new element of depth to the achievement feeling I enjoy so much in RPGs.

[Elrond]

If I recall correctly, the GM attempted to toy with additional stat improvement "potions" in Mirgspil. But his attempt didn't succeed and he put off the update indefinitely.

Without the option to improve stats permanently to improve xp bonus; then the rerolls should continue!

[Oldschool]

Elrond just cut to the chase as far as I'm concerned.

The bonuses (for checks) are nice but as it stands now the max is twenty and experienced players know that even with "free" gear most stats can be bumped up from a few to several points.

If that was the only concern more players would take "lesser" starting stats.

The real reason most folks continue to re-roll is for those all important xp bonuses. I know for my alts I didn't even look at the actual rolls unless ALL the bounuses were at 25 percent or better. Than depending on what was what and how the Elixir could be used I decided to keep or continue rolling.

[TheRedFear]

So...I'm wondering why you think it's a problem. Even with 19's and 20's, and perfect stats, you won't always pass a roll. Some of the checks in the game make sure you'll NEVER guarantee to pass a roll regardless of how high your stats are. This can be challenging enough in a do-or-die situation, especially for a PG where ATs are on the line.

Are you bothered by all 19's and 20's because you think it unbalances the game, because I for one, don't think so.

Edit: There are actually pre-generated (http://sryth.wikia.com/wiki/Pre-Generated) characters you can use and they don't have maxed stats. Some of them even come with their own unique weapons and items that you can't get anywhere else in the game. I guess, what I'm trying to say is: there is an option out there for people who don't want to play with perfect stats. But, I'm not for limiting how people should play the game. If you want to roll the highest stats possible, and the game allows that--I don't see how that is any way breaking the game.

Amen sister.

Taz, I say this somewhat tongue in cheek, but you dear sir are what is colloquially known in modern parlance as 'A Hater'. Stop hating the players man. Hate the game. :cool:

Joking aside(That was a joke) I've never understood the people who decide that if there is a cheat/trick/exploit OR possibility of repeatedly attempting something until you attain an optimal result in a game then it is their sacred duty to complain until the Devs ruin it for everybody else. Note I do not think Taz is doing that. He just lodged a single complaint and that's fine. But this thread brings to mind all the people like I just described above, which gives me an excuse to rant about another pet peeve of mine. I'm just chock fulla those ain't I? :D

Anyway, put simply if you don't want to use these tricks, then don't. Period. Fin. Stop trying to ruin the fun for those who DO want to use them. :p

[Tazar Yoot]

Hardly a hater in my opinion, I was just voicing a bit of a design flaw I felt I had noticed.

[Young Ned]

Actually, I think the GM did originally design and implement the game with the expectation that players would not roll maxed stats. A variety of things point to this, including:
the fact that no pre-generated characters have maxed stats;
the sheer number of items that boost one stat or another, which are largely unnecessary when people have all 19s or 20s;
comments from those who've been playing a long time that it wasn't originally as easy to roll high stats as it is now.

But at some point, the game was modified to make high stats a lot easier to roll -- I've occasionally gotten mostly 19s and 20s on the first or second roll. I don't know why that change was made, but my theory is that it was always possible to get a high roll, but you had to reroll for so long that most people never found it. Then one or more people did luck into it, and started spreading the word, and other people started rerolling like crazy and complaining because they still couldn't get a really high roll... So eventually the GM decided to make high rolls come more easily, to reduce the number of complaints on the forums and in his in-box (and to avoid having to nerf the characters who had already been rolled with ultrahigh stats). :cool:

Whatever the exact history, it is currently possible to get very high rolls indeed, and so people are rolling up their characters accordingly. My guess is that this is not what the GM originally intended, but he seems to be fine with it now. (Though of course he could be calm on the surface but seething underneath.) :)

[Joddelle]

I think he made it easier to roll high stats for a very pragmatic reason: it probably tremendously reduced the load on his server.

Of all the game scripting/botting/hacking out there, I'd venture a guess that 'stat busting' is by far the most popular. It's certainly the easiest to do.

[Taleria]

Yes, this. It's like the original Baldur's Gate game. I just rolled and rolled and rolled until I could max out all but one of my stats. I much prefer games where you buys stats with points.

Nah, I'm in the re-rolling camp. I hate games where you're limited in your abilities. I agonize so much over skill point atribution because I want everything maxed. Takes the fun out of the game for me if every time I level up, I have to think about how at some point, I'll no longer get distribution points and need to prioritize. I should also mention here that I dislike games that penalize you for dying, either by taking away all your items or docking XP.

I think Oldschool said it best:

The real reason most folks continue to re-roll is for those all important xp bonuses. I know for my alts I didn't even look at the actual rolls unless ALL the bounuses were at 25 percent or better. Than depending on what was what and how the Elixir could be used I decided to keep or continue rolling.

That's pretty much what I did, too.

Aside from being able to roll stats that are all 19's and 20's, have you wondered why you can find some very difficult quests in the same region that you can find some really easy quests? And that there is no warning sign that stops you from entering a quest that could be way out of your league? Or for that matter, that there is no clear linear storyline from the beginning that tells you: this is where you need to start--this is where you can go. When you think about, Sryth gives a LOT of room to mess up with this game. Why did the GM do this?

I had a friend complain to me on just these points. I replied that unlike some games, Sryth has no real death penalties unless you don't have Runes of Life or you're in a PG. Exploration is encouraged, and the game does not auto-save, which works because as already stated, even with maxed stats, you can still fail checks.

See, but for me, the lack of warning about the difficulty of quests made things more interesting, particularly for my first character. It would have been jarring to be taken out of game immersion with something like a warning screen. I also mentioned to my friend that mid- to high-level characters tend to already be in an experimentation frame of mind, so even if there were warnings, we wouldn't listen anyway. We'd just whip out our trusty Demonscourge or raid the Trading Post for a suitable weapon for that quest. Or resort to items/magic.

Basically, high stats and low death penalty means I can focus on the game itself, rather than tedious considerations of mechanics. Lack of warning for quest difficulties means I truly feel like an adventurer. Having the freedom to get in over your head is part of what makes the first playthrough feel so "real." Having the guided tour is useful for an MMRPG, but would feel contrived here.

[kanex7]

Originally Posted by Taleria
...the lack of warning about the difficulty of quests made things more interesting...
Not having a warning is how I ended up with the Band Of Gruljasa so early in the game.
I hadn't even started the Runeskin Adventures when I got it.

[zmflavius]

Not having a warning is how I ended up with the Band Of Gruljasa so early in the game.
I hadn't even started the Runeskin Adventures when I got it.

/em jumps in shock.

[scout1idf]

Not having a warning is how I ended up with the Band Of Gruljasa so early in the game.
I hadn't even started the Runeskin Adventures when I got it.

All 4 of mine have the band but only Scout has done Runeskin.