Giving the GM a Break

[Badstench]

This constitutes one of the things that has been missing from the new forum... a Badstench rant!

Before I embark on this rant, I want to excuse myself through being a bit drunk. I had an excellent baked fish dinner that cried for a Chardonnay accompaniment. Unfortunately, I followed the glass of Chardonnay with two more glasses, followed by a Merlot, then chased by a Jack Daniels, and that lead to a rummage in the liquor cabinet that resulted in a concoction of alcoholic beverages that saw me quite nicely, thankyou very much.

Now, where was I?

Oh yes. I was about to expound on the theme of why Players need to take a step back and realise that they (you) are just Players!

Give the GM a break!

I've been reading threads and posts in the forum that have left me flummoxed of late.

Suggestions are okay, but insistences are not. Requests are okay, but demands are not.

This is easy to understand, but what flummoxes me is the amount of requests thrown at the GM that amount to demands.

Repeated questions about "loose ends", suggestions of how things could work better, etc are all good and well, but we have to realise that the GM might have a master plan.

And we have to understand that he presents this game to us as a business.

My point is this... It doesn't matter what your longevity is with the game, it's just a game. Ultimately, the direction of the game is controlled by the Game Master, and he is earning a living from it.

Give him kudos, people.

Give him room to move.

[Oldschool]

PUI ;) or not - excellent points.

[thingirl]

Yes, drunk or not, Badstench makes several good points.

Oh, and Oldschool, PUI= Posting Under the Influence. And you thought I wouldn't get that... :)

[Mak]

I have to agree - we have been taking the GM for granted lately. The sheer volume of emails, requests and suggestions thrown at his way must be overwhelming... not to mention distracting. Personally, I have always thought of Sryth as a work of art in progress. Therefore, I 'd rather just sit back and watch the GM's work of genius unfold at its own pace. Never failed me once.

Badstench, you should drink and rant more often - clearly the markings of a drunk philosopher-in-the-making. Hmmm, the Drunk Philosophers' Club...

Cheers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_WRFJwGsbY),mate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_d_VJbYAfc)! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBp2ke5Bye4)

[Oldschool]

Good points and nice links Mak.

I've heard more than a few gibes about American beer but the canoe reference..... http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[Badstench]

Hmmm... I've sobered up and read back on my post.

I think I was a bit harsh. What I really meant to say is... our expectations of the game might not be the same as that of the plan that the Gamemaster has for Sryth.

We have to relise that, and accept what's coming.

[mahansolo]

You get a rep from me BS. The point is well made but that's not the reason for the rep. Your use of the word "flummoxed" gets my rep. Haven't heard it in ages and despite any perceived harshness on your part, it made me chuckle. In fact, I will make a conscious effort to use that word today in casual conversation.

Officer: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"
Me: "No officer. In fact, to be honest, I'm quite flummoxed as to why you stopped me."

Flummoxed.

I defy anyone to say that 5 times in succession and not grin. :D

Sounds like a name for a Dr. Suess character.

[Young Ned]

Flummoxed.

I defy anyone to say that 5 times in succession and not grin. :D

Sounds like a name for a Dr. Suess character.

The Flummox is a mighty beast. :D Visually, I'm imagining that Seuss started with an ox and then, well... Seussified it. Curlicued horns at least 6 or 8 feet long, purple skin with swirls and streaks of bright red, and a skinny tail with a puff on the end of it that looks like a cheerleader's pom-pom.

[scout1idf]

I've been meaning to post this for a while and am just now getting around to it...

Through my learning of web design and programming, I have a new understanding and respect for the GM as far as "Loose Ends" are concerned.

Creating and managing 2 web sites, I have a few hundred "Loose Ends" of my own. Every time I think I'll get some of them cleaned up, I think of a new project to do.

Well, if the GM and I are anything alike, I would say that he would rather start something new and exciting than to go back and clean up what is already started.

That's one of my short coming, in my wife's eyes, and I wonder if it is in his wife's as well?

So the next time the GM seems kinda slow with a particular update, I'll remember not to complain and maybe even go work on some of my "Loose Ends".

Just some of my thoughts.....


Scout

[Tetracapillactomist]

Excellent perspective Scout! :)

Personally, I'm not the least bothered by loose ends - each one presents the opportunity of an exciting gift further down the road, one that keeps excitement up as it keeps coming and coming and coming and coming....
I don't mind. :D

They may never arrive, but boyo, if or when they ever do, will that be a climax and a half! :)

[shadowblack]

I'll have to disagree with Scout on this: It's one thing to leave something hanging for a few months; it's a whole different thing to leave something hanging for YEARS, especially when that "something" is a story with a lot of important details that are easy to forget as time passes.

I wonder how many people would be able to remember - WITHOUT looking at the wiki or another source of information - characters such as Salwyn, a certain human mage with a red diamond tattoo on the back of each of his hands, Hokmunwa, Zalturra, the Markwhill brothers, Misurik, Wistoor...

It's also really annoying to wait for months or years for a continuation of a particular storyline only to get an adventure (or several adventures) that result in another obvious loose end. And then another few months/years of waiting. I'm looking at you, Brother Kol! And you, sword of Merzekk!

I know that it tends to be more fun to work on new things instead of continuing old ones. But sooner or later you have to stop with the new projects and go back to the old ones, otherwise people may start wondering if you are even capable of finishing your old projects, which in turn could make them question how reliable you are, and that could have undesired consequences... To use Sryth and and its loose ends an example: If the number of unaddressed loose ends continues to increase some players might get tired of it all and give up on the game... And potential new ones might pass up on the game due to the large number of plot threads left hanging...

[demojan777]

As a GM myself...

(warning: spoilered for a very long gamer geek rant, read at own risk!)
currently GM-ing a Pathfinder campaign, and if anyone doesn't know what that is it's a current up-to-date version of tabletop D&D that is published by a different company for those of us who wanted to continue playing D&D instead of the WoW-clone that WoTC came up with for D&D 4th Edition: anyone interested here is some info (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG) from the publisher, and here is some info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathfinder_Roleplaying_Game) from Wikipedia, and this is pretty much why (http://www.retrojunk.com/forums/index.php?view=posts&fid=1&tid=33832) my gaming group prefers it over D&D 4th Edition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%26D_4th_Edition#Dungeons_.26_Dragons_4th_edition ); namely, we can still play a living game and use the thousands of dollars worth of gaming materials we've purchased over the past 10 years without them being "incompatible" or "out-of-date" and having to spend thousands of more dollars to play a completely new incompatible version....I have a lot of loose ends in the campaigns that I run as players come in and out of the line-up of weekly people who show up to play (real life has that effect especially as we advance in years), and some characters develop relationships and plots and I help out with backgrounds and plot twists that sometimes don't amount to anything because the player leaves the game (although that makes for some good plot twisting in itself, as in when the character who left leaves the group taking the blame for something horrible s/he caused while in-game), or I have a master plan for the final battle planned for the end of the campaign and for some reason the campaign dies out before we begin to finish it as real life intrudes and often crushes games, and when we re-group it's often best to start from scratch.

Luckily, I don't GM all the time, other members of the group are very capable and competent GMs and we take turns (currently I am running one game every 2 weeks and playing in a game my friend is GMing every other week), so I get to play as well and also have experienced my own share of loose ends in campaigns not brought to fruition.

That is the nature of the beast, my friends. ANY RPG you play will contain loose ends / red herrings / characters who pop in and may seem important and vital to the heart of the story but are never heard from again... much like life.

The flip side of this, is that while you are in the thick of things, if you are an avid RPG player as I am, you get to experience the best part which is that you get to be someone totally different than you are for a while, someone with powers and abilities that if you had them in real life you would either have to hide them or you would eventually be fired upon with missiles for being a dangerous freak. YOU are the hero in the story and the world that you are helping to create with the other players and GMs/storytellers of the game world.

To be quite honest, I am surprised at the number of ends in the game so far that aren't "loose"! Our illustrious GM is a master at his craft to have weaved such a rich tapestry of plots and immersion such that I have no hesitation whatsoever to keep coming back year after year and playing this game, just so see what comes next.

I think that I may not play as frequently as many of the others on the forum, but that is because I like to stay behind the content. This way, when I do want to lose myself in the game for a day or two, I have the pleasure of having a bunch of things out there for me to explore and get into. That may be seen by some as a waste of money for what I pay for my yearly AG membership, but it's not that much compared to most of the other online games out there, and I always end up getting more bang for my buck and get the most out of it by pacing myself to maximize my enjoyment of Sryth.

Many, many thanks to the GM (I have often thanked him with donations as well, and many times via email and in-game message, but I don't feel like I can say it enoough), and glad to have discovered this awesome tale and rich, lively world of jitters and trollbonts and Thanes and shadow magic and many other great and terribly terrific things.

Bring on the ends, loose or otherwise, but most of all bring on the beginnings and middles because getting there is always the richest reward!

[Tetracapillactomist]

I see a good point in Shadowblack's post, which can't be disputed: players will forget certain details, they will lose familiarity with characters that appeared, then faded from view and memory.

But as Demojan expounded upon that as well, expressing and implying a certain sad parallel with real life, I will only say that indeed, apparitions that vanish, and experiences that remain without a closure are also a bittersweet part of life - bitter for the loss, sweet because of the remembrance.

Perhaps those who have accepted such pain as being an unavoidable part of life, have a more tolerant view of it being lightly mirrored in a game. On the other hand, others may object (in the game) to things they have no choice but to accept in their own lives - an objection that is also easily understood.

I fully empathise with Shadowblack's sentiments, because a game can also be viewed as a pleasurable task, which players feel compelled to complete - and we all have varying levels of tolerance towards any given thing in life. Indefinitely withholding climax or closure can be maddening. It's only natural that some should expect clearer definitions of intent, scope and schedules, and will be irked, even intensely displeased, by endlessly protracted or postponed resolutions.

On the other hand, clearly, Sryth's audience is not composed by a significant number of players who are very strict about such expectations: they probably aren't the ones who sit down to play a game, complete it, then move on to the next one.

So, while Shadowblack's worries are very real and pragmatic (worries which I'd beg everyone, including the GM, to always consider seriously!), not things to be scoffed at or dismissed, nevertheless, in my opinion the issue of perpetual incompleteness may not be a dire one in the eyes of such a band as ours, and in the eyes of potential (yet unknown) Sryth-players in general (or, as Demojan suggested, with D&D and RPG players at large, in fact).

In the end, we all have our bones to pick and crosses to carry, our own sources of aggravation and disappointment. I too, and know them fairly well.

And we are doing the right thing here, bringing them out into the open, discussing them... and venting preventively, for which - approve of it or not - there is no substitute, if a build-up of tension and deep-felt dissatisfaction is to be avoided.

In a way, we are taking our own collective temperature in order to avoid perishing from a neglected fever, players and game alike. The GM can then glance at this forum, our thermometer, and take corrective measures as he sees fit

We cannot force his decisions: this may well be, after all, his Magnum Opus, and for all intents and purposes, his alone. It is his intellectual property, to do with as he pleases, regardless of the dismayed alarm some implications of that truth may raise.

I suppose I find myself increasingly in the camp of those who think we should consider this to be one of our lives' ephemeral pleasures, and enjoy the opportunity of its humanly imperfect state as long as we are able.

We should also continue to discuss, and object, and praise, expressing freely our approval as well as our misgivings, as honestly as is possible within the constraints of civility and comprehensibility.

Yes, we are doing the right thing now, as in the past, and I love the fact that we can discuss in such a way most any subject - game-related or otherwise.

Will leave off here - having written what I have, and having allowed those words to take a hold of me in a sphere outside the game, I now feel an intense need to spend time with my own bitter-sweet thoughts and memories.

[Oldschool]

Well I'm of a mixed bag with a little of everyone's post tossed in as I think most others probably are if they sit down and think about it. The thought of evolving or even never ending content probably appeals to most much for the reasons DJ laid out. I don't think that evolving/never ending is the problem as much as open endedness.

Take Runeskin for example. We finished Runeskin volume one and now are in the midst of Runeskin volume two (if you're current or close to of course). And personally the ends don't have to be that closed off - for me at least. However at some point and after some time an end should come - not necessarily the end of course.

Just my two cents.

[texlaw1992]

...the GM's clearly aware of the effect of the time lag for some of the adventures. Those late continuances or further adventures invariably begin along the lines of "you remember the last time you met so-and-so" with a lengthy excerpt from the earlier mission to refresh your memory. That's always worked for me thus far.